[Ian M Davis]

I thought it may help if I gave you a brief explanation of your car's electrical system. Your car has two main computers: the engine ECU and BSI (Built-in System Interface/ Body System Interface). These are connected by a computer bus. The BSI controls all the car's electronics except the engine and the engine ECU controls the engine. Note: Peugeot use the term ECU to mean Electronic Control Unit so in Peugeots the engine ECU is just one of several ECUs.

I have attached a wiring diagram of the car's injection system. In the top left corner there is a block labelled PFS1. This is the main engine fuse box. It has two parts: the top part is the BSM and the part underneath the BSM is the maxi-fuse-box. I can't remember what the letters BSM stand for but it's just French for fuse box. It sounds like your BSM was filled water so is probably unserviceable. If you want to continue working on the car I think the first thing you need to do is get the BSM replaced. These are sealed units and you are unlikely to be able to remove all the water. The BSM has a microprocessor and several relays. There are several power connections from the BSM to the engine ECU so it is important the BSM is working properly.

Two other key components in the wiring diagram are:
1320 - engine ECU
BSI1 - Built-in System Interface/ Body system interface - this is also the main cabin fuse box.
The engine ECU is usually next to the engine fusebox and has three connectors. If you want to know the function of the other block in the the wiring diagram you can find a description at: http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/peugeot/wd/wiringdiagrams.htm

One warning about modern cars is you should always follow the 3 minute rule before disconnecting the battery:
(i) Open the drivers window for access
(ii) open the bonnet
(iii) turn everything off and remove keys
(iv) Shut the doors (don't lock them)
(v) Wait at least 3 minutes before disconnecting the battery

If you are going to remove the engine ECU. Disconnect the battery first. Then remove the three connectors and check them for water. The engine ECU is well sealed so the only place I know water can get in is via the connectors. If the connectors are dry I would expect the engine ECU to be okay. Given that the car starts I think there is a fair chance the engine ECU is okay.

I have only address the electrical problems. There is clearly some mechanical issues as well. Has anyone done a compression test on the engine?

EDIT
You mentioned the glow plugs weren't working so I thought I would attach the wiring diagram for the glow plugs as well. They get their main power from the battery protection unit (BPGA) which sits in front of the battery. The wiring diagram shows a relay in the BPGA. That is incorrect they replaced the relay on the 5008 BPGA with a solid link. The 5008 BPGA is just a fuse box. The relay (1158) that switches the glow plugs on is controlled by the engine ECU.

I have also added the starting circuit

 

[Ian M Davis]

The grey connector is an ECU connector 48V GR (48 pin grey). Several pins are damaged. I have put a red box around them. These pins provide power to the injectors and explains why the car is misfiring. I have also put some coloured dots on the pins:
Red Injector 1
Green injector 2
Blue injector 3
Yellow injector 4
Peugeot number their cylinders the opposite way to most other manufactures: cylinder 1 is closest to the gearbox.
You need to sort out that connector before you do anything else. I think they have been making a bad contact or may have been wet. Don't do anything with the ECU until you sort out the connector.

Note: the eBay kits you found include the ECU and BSI. The BSI is the dashboard fuse box. You owner handbook should show you where it is. If you don't have a handbook you can find it at https://public.servicebox.peugeot.com/APddb/index.html

 

[Ian M Davis]

Lets see if .pdf will be allowed

I think I may have confused you over the ECU. The engine ECU is the main ECU. ECU usually means Engine Control Unit but Peugeot use the term ECU to mean Electronic Control Unit. This is important when you look at diagnostic data because it can get very confusing because you will find lots of boxes are called ECUs.

The unit you call "battery fusebox" is a BPGA. It is more than a simple fusebox. It is a safety device taht turns the power to some parts of the car when the car is locked. It can also cut power in an accident.

I think you had a problem with one of the PDF attachments. Here it is as a jpeg. Note the BPGA is not shown in this diagram but it is on the glow plug and starting diagrams.

 

[Ian M Davis]

@Ian M Davis and @RedSector
Thanks guys!

It's clear as water to me, that your plan is corresponding to mine.

Tomorrow (or Tue) I'll be getting contact cleaner spray, some more silicone etc to reassemble everything to learn if ECU is indeed damaged or more likely "fuse box"- BSI. That then'll be the job for the "the guy" on Wed.to establish.

Depending on how it all pans out, I'm considering to replace whole ECU+BSI+Lock+Key set (or maybe even with instrument cluster), but worried about mine being extra special "Sport" model....

Anyway, the option of sending to "ECU Testing guys" is already costing more than double of ECU kits available on fleaBay

As it comes to engine mechanically, that'll be looked in to after electric gremlins will be solved... hopefully...

Thank you very much indeed guys!

I think it's highly likely your ECU and BSI are okay. You have to be careful with the whole kits. Not only do the part numbers need to match I recently discovered it needs to come from the same car model. For example a forum member tried fitting a Citroen kit to a Peugeot with the same engine and it didn't work properly. Diagbox was able to tell it was in the wrong car so there is something in the ECU software which specifies the car model. If you do fit a new kit there is no need to change the ignition switch. All you need to do it swap the old key blade to the new key case.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Them translated terms!
View attachment 113371


However, I've got every intention to ask any further questions, once I'll get rid of water damage or components, if it comes to it.
BTW my battery fuse box, with relays should be here too, if anything, they'll become spare fuses

Good night! (it's 23:15 here), considering I was up at 6:30 today, I deserve bit of a rest, if not physically, more mentally of the dramas she's given me

If you select English at the top right of the page instead of French you should get a better translation:

 

[Ian M Davis]

I have gone through your pdf document and replied to each point -see attachment 5008 discussion.

I have also attached:
(i) A pdf document that shows the location of all the electronic control units. The majority of these connect to the BSI via CAN buses.
(ii) A location diagram for the glow plug relay (1158).

I found your glow plug relay in one of your photos

 

[Ian M Davis]

OMG, that honestly is too kind of you, thank you once more!
All I got up for was for "old mans pleasure" (toilet), not going back to bed no more...

Honestly, with direct connection on Skype or WhatsApp you could teach those mechanics over here, how to treat Peugeot branded "w4ores", is what they are!
That diagram, you've sent about glow-plugs, ues, I already disconnected and reconnected, but now will do it once again, only if I could find contact cleaner over bank holidays....

Happy easter to you, your family, if you are religious. Happy holiday season, if you aren't.
Best wishes to you, also @RedSector , you guys rock! 🤘

I usually use isopropanol as a contact cleaner. They sell in spray bottles here in DIY store paint departments.

 

[Ian M Davis]

1. BSI Reset
This is the best procedure I know to do a BSI reset:

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnection / Reconnection - French Car Forum

2 BPGA (battery fusebox) and No crank with hot start
The BPGA relay switches off/on the main power line to the starter motor. Hence, is is likely the new BPGA relay is faulty.

3 No Crank from key
When you turn the key to start it sends a signal to the BSI. The BSI then sends a signal to the BSM to close a relay that power the starter motor solenoid. If this is not working there are several possibilities:
(i) The BSI needs resetting
(ii) The BSM is fault
(iii) BSM fuse No 8 has blown
(iv) wiring fault

3 Relay next to the ECU
I don't know what that relay does. I will try to find out.

4 Battery Charging
Do you have a multimeter? The best way to tell if the alternator is working is to check the battery voltage when the engine is running. It should be be around 14V.

 

[Ian M Davis]

I found your relay in the Peugeot SEDRE wiring diagrams. It is the headlight washer relay- see attachment.

Did cleaning the ECU connector stop the misfiring? It is all I would expect to have happened.

I very much doubt changing the ECU kit will solve your problem. The lack of crank is more likely to be a BSM problem.

BTW what gearbox do you have?

 

[Ian M Davis]

Pardon our interruption...

Damn Auto (and only one door lock)

Pardon our interruption...

Bosch ECU and all together too many differences

Pardon our interruption...

Bosch again

Pardon our interruption...

Nice, but completely different

Pardon our interruption...

Semi-auto and few differences from the go

.... Well so far no luck to even to give her a better shot to fix her cheaply....

At this stage I am not convinced changing the ECU kit will solve any of your problems but I looked at the kits you found and the only one that has any chance of working on your car is the first one. However, you need the Peugeot diagnostic tool (Lexia 3 with Diagbox software) to reconfigure it for your gearbox.

Please note:
1. You do not need the door locks or ignition switch. You will just create a lot of unnecessary trouble for yourself trying to fit these. Just swap the old key blade to the new key case.
2. The BSI and dash cluster both store the car's milage. If you fit a replacement BSI it will compare the mileage it has stored against the value in the cluster and then set the mileage on both units to the highest of the two.

 

[Ian M Davis]

You covered a lot of stuff in your last posts.
BPGA (battery fuse box)
My understanding is you bought a new BPGA and fitted it. Then you found you were unable to start the car so you put the original BPGA back. The BPGA has a relay (white block at the front). This relay cuts the connection between the battery and starter motor. If you were unable to crank the car with the "hot" wire the mechanic fitted it meant the BPGA relay was not closed so possibly faulty.

Cranking Circuit
The engine ECU should play no part in the cranking. That is controlled by the BSI (dash fuse box) and BSM (engine fuse box).

BSI water ingress
The BSI is the dashboard fuse box. It should be behind the glove box on your car. On some cars if there is a leak in the windscreen seal* water can run down the wires into the BSI connectors.
* Windscreen seals often leak as a result of a poorly fitted replacement windscreen
Injectors
Your electrical system is made by Delphi so you must use the correct Delphi injectors (there may be after market equivalents). I understand that car manufactures use piezo injectors to meet the NOx requirements of Euro 5. I have attached the parts list for the injectors and associated parts. Note: The part numbers are the official Peugeot part numbers. These numbers are rarely if ever printed on the actual part. When new injectors are fitted they have to be coded using a diagnostic tool . Every injector has a code printed on it which needs to entered- see attached procedure.

Piezo injectors operate a high voltage (100 to 200V) and can suffer electrical breakdown. Speak to your electrician on Tuesday. He may have a tool to check your injectors for electrical breakdown.

 

[Ian M Davis]

One more thing

I think you meant option to change remote part of the key with new from the new set. Risky, But I'll look up some videos on how to and it leaves me with one key... but not a biggy.

I had in mind changing the key blade but your idea is easier. If your old key case is in good condition and the same as you new key all you need to do is transfer the PCB. To change the battery on my key I have to lift the PCB out. In many cases the PCB will fall out when you open the case.

You should be able to get another key cut and programmed at a high street locksmith e.g. Timpsons.

I think the ignition switch is held in by a tamperproof bolt that has to be drilled out so best avoided if possible.

 

[Ian M Davis]

A couple more things:
You asked about you engine HP. That is given in the description I got from your VIN:
5008 (T87) BREAK LOISIRS 2.0 HDi 163 FAP (DW10CTED4) BVM 6
Your engine power is 163 PS (160HP). Peugeot use metric house power (PS). In many cases ECU kit sellers give the VIN of the car which I can check. If you match all the numbers on the ECU there is a good chance it will be a perfect match to your engine. I think the first thing you need to do is replace the BSM

If you are concerned about the injectors you should get a mechanic to remove them and send them to a specialist for testing.

One other thing worth checking is the earth points: MC10, MC11 and MC13. See attachment

 

[Ian M Davis]

Just to confuse you further. I have attached the parts list which includes the engine ECU (item 1). There are two possibilities:
1943 TF until RPO 12291 (4 July 2010)
16 062 228 80 from RPO 12292 (5 July 2010) until 12571 (10 April 2011)
Basically Peugeot changed the engine ECU in mid 2010. A brand new ECU would need configuring by a dealer or someone with access to the Peugeot server. The same ECU is used for all engine power levels. The configuration will set the power level.

Your RPO should be on your the tyre pressure label. There will be a 7 figure number. The first five numbers are the RPO (date code) and the last to numbers or letters are the factory code.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Just back from a jail... I swear, I'll be sacked soon enough for not being even interested in doing my work (my most common complaint about mechanics- electriciation over here) ordered x2 injectors Delphi 9686191080 , should be here Thursday.

(FYI found new (DELPHI (model number R00101DP) P/N 9686191080 ) ones £247 x each, well used ones starting £40 each (cheapest from Fords), but opted for really, barely used looking (as new) ones £65 ech +£4 postage

Spoke to "specialist sparky" (electrician), told him to book me in for Fri and that he'll have to reprogram ALL injectors, if he's to do a proper testing fault finding thingy (meaning getting them out), which was..("surprise") NO! I'd need your mechanic to take them out, then, I'd come to his etc etc... fvck 'im!!!!


Did one more BSM reset (all 3 mins and 5 min wait) to the letter.
View attachment 113532
Glow plugs didn't come up (now thus is the original BPGA now).

did try using a key, heard some relays clicking!!!!! but nevertheless, started using trusty red wire

View attachment 113533
Once started, both engine fault and charge fault was on

View attachment 113534

Perhaps, on the top of the other things battery is dead?
or dead'ish or, perhaps since that water damage, I'm right and I do have some sort of electric battery drain, even when car isn't used?
Dunno! Might as well order a new one, they aren't that expensive, considering mechanics and electricians charges, if they do come out...

I am not surprised an electrician wouldn't change the injectors. It really is a job for a good mechanic. Diesel injectors are precision devices and operate a very high pressures. There is a copper seal (washer) at the base of the injectors that need to be replaced. This sealing needs to be perfect so in some cases the seating on the cylinder head needs to be cleaned up with a special tool.

If you car is cranking with the "hot wire" your battery is okay. I suggest you check the battery voltage with the engine running. If there really is a charging fault the voltage will be about 12V but if its charging it will be about 14V.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Eternal confusion...
I'm good at it!
BSM, that might need be replaced (I presume) isn't BSI that's located in side glove box,
View attachment 113535

What are them fuses then?

That is the maxi-fuse box. The engine fuse box has two separate parts:
The top part is the BSM
The bottom part is the maxi-fuse box.

The fuse in the maxi-fuse box are the large high current fuses and are shown in the wiring diagrams a MF__. This fuse box is not meant to be touched by the car own so is hidden under the BSM on most cars you can't see it. The maxi-fuse box is a just a basic fuse box no electronics.

Found this website, but TBH not sure what am I looking at

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4) - Catcar.info

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components - Catcar.info

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, units / connector boards / kits, ELECTRONIC BOX MUX - Catcar.info kinda relevant
Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, units / connector boards / kits, CHECKING STAND AND FUSE BOX - Catcar.info Kinda relevant

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, central harnesses - Catcar.info

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, pre-heating, PLUG - PREHEATING PLUG CONTROL BOX - Catcar.info might be relevant

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, front harnesses, ENGINE WIRING - Catcar.info not sure what am I looking at

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, front harnesses, MAIN WIRING UNDER BONNET - Catcar.info might be relevant

Model, 5008, Body: without parameters / Engine: 2.0 HDi FAP (DW10CTED4), electrical components, front harnesses, ENGINE WIRING - Catcar.info hardly tells me anything

These are just copies of the Peugeot 5008 parts lists.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Yes, item (5) actually didn't read part list, just looked at pic and though, hmmm not there....
The copper washers are not re-usable (will likely leak if you do), and rarely would be bronze.

@Ian M Davis will confirm the below.

The BSM and the BPGA are not programmable. The BSI and ECU are.

I would leave the BPGA alone. Based on what you have told us I think it's okay. I would concentrate on the BSM. It doesn't need configuring. Replacing the BSM will only get you back to the position you were in before you got water in the BSM.

Injectors replacing, due to mechanic not being too happy about and saying that "if they are faulty, they might have affected ECU or might have been other way round, ECU malfunctioned and messed up injectors or even something further.".. at least I've got them ready.
Indeed, smoking apart, when I drove her back, she was purring like tiger and...

Piezo injectors can suffer electrical breakdown which may effect the ECU. However, I would expect a mechanic who works on diesels to have a suitable meter to check the injectors for electrical breakdown. This video shows a mechanic doing this.

There can be a lot of other failure modes with injectors so best thing would have been for the mechanic to remove and send them for testing or at least do a leak-off test.

The reason for coding injectors is they all differ slightly so they have to be classified. if someone has changed an injector without coding it then there is a chance that the injector is over fuelling. However, coding is more about getting optimal performance. I found that Peugeots diesels from before 2004 usually don't need coding.

One thing you may not know - there are a number of Peugeot owners who own the Peugeot diagnostic tool and are willing to help other owners. Here is a link to the map. Just click o the pin if you find someone near you. Peugeot Planet / Diagbox Diagnostics Owners Map - Google My Maps

 

[Ian M Davis]

Electrics in BSM are just electrics? do I need to or not to have them matched with ECU and BSI? do they have S/N chip?

You can change the BSM yourself. Just unplug it and put the new one in. However, make sure the part numbers printed on the replacement match the original. Peugeot can use up to 5 slightly different BSMs on the same car. The difference is to save cost they omit some fuses and their connections. If you get the wrong one you may find an accessory doesn't work.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Getting it straight up! I've found x10 of identical numbers ones, picking the best looking, least dusty.... Or perhaps that's the one I should go, as clean looking ones might have been messed with

Your guess is as good as mine on that one.

 

[Ian M Davis]

I have attached the procedure to remove the BSI. They are always difficult to work on especially on right hand drive cars.

I think a lot of people confuse the BSM with the BSI. Some sellers add the words "plug and play" to the description of the BSM. It is not part of the official description.

The BSI and engine ECU are part of the immobiliser system so need to be configured with the car's PIN. Once programmed you need specialist equipment to change it. Even dealers will not reprogram a used BSI or ECU. The BSI also contains the car's VIN. Some manufactures also write the VIN to the ECU but Peugeot usually don't but there is other information stored in the ECU that identifies the car model.

Your starter motor has two connections. The large terminal connects to the battery via the BPGA. The smaller terminal is connected to the BSM. This is where your mechanic has attached the wire. The way the starting system works is:
(i) Turning the key to start sends a signal to the BSI
(ii) The BSI sends a signal to the BSM
(iii) The BSM closes a relay which provides power to the small terminal of the starter motor. The BSM has a 5 pin connector with a white wire on pin 2. This is the connection to the starter motor's small terminal.