[Ian M Davis]

I was just looking at the photo of the dash at #9 and one thing that concerns me is the car appears to be in the "Charge Zone" I just realised this the rate of charge not the 200V battery charge state but it raises a good question has it been showing a rate of charge when the engine was running. but it is showing no charge or very low charge. This suggests the 200V battery has a low charge. That doesn't matter that much except if my memory serves me correct the standard 12V battery is charged by the 200V system.

One thing I am not sure of - does the car crank? If it does it would be worth measuring the 12V battery voltage during cranking.

 

[ManxViking]

The car has a brand new 12 volt battery on it as the previous one was only showing 4 volts after being sat at the first garage for a week so I decided to replace the battery as a precaution.
The car does not crank. This might suggest that one computer is talking to another to say that the parameters have not been met so do not start?
Need a step-by-step procedure to work through and cancel out various potential issues in order to be able to get to the end result. I am wondering if such a thing exists.

Thank you so much for your help.

David

 

[RedSector]

Anytime a main car battery goes below about 11 volts, serious damage is done to the battery, unless it is a deep draw type.

 

[Ian M Davis]

The car has a brand new 12 volt battery on it as the previous one was only showing 4 volts after being sat at the first garage for a week so I decided to replace the battery as a precaution.
The car does not crank. This might suggest that one computer is talking to another to say that the parameters have not been met so do not start?
Need a step-by-step procedure to work through and cancel out various potential issues in order to be able to get to the end result. I am wondering if such a thing exists.

Thank you so much for your help.

David

I am surprised the 12V battery voltage dropped like that. The BPGA should disconnect most things that drain the battery.

All you can do is look at the diagnostic code and then look for the cause. Unfortunately, diagnostic codes don't always pin point the fault. The main thing to check if the engine ECU is getting power.

I have attached the starting diagram. The engine fusebox processor controls the cranking and there are several things that need to be right before it allows cranking. For example if the engine RCU is not getting full power the car will not crank.

Do you know if the the steering is unlocking?

 

[Ian M Davis]

Do you know if the car was using the rear electric motor to power the car before the breakdown? The reason I ask is the 12V battery is charged by the 200V traction battery. Early on in the the investigation (#8) you found that the voltage at the BPGA dropped from 13.5V to 12.3V and later after a week's storage it further dropped to 4V. I suspect there is parasitic drain on the 12V battery possibly via the charging system.

When the car is locked the relay in the BPGA should disconnect most of the load on the 12V battery so it should not have discharged during a week's storage. However, there is a continuous connection to the traction battery monitor and I wonder if this is draining the 12V battery.

 

[ManxViking]

Good afternoon.

After disconnecting both the HV battery and the 12V supply for an hour or two, I put the diagnostic back on again and came up with the following error, FD 80 GSM module internal fault?
I have a quick look through the forums and I cannot see that causes this fault that I have.
I am going to work back through the messages and through the diagnosis process including the wiring diagram to attempt to trace what power is going where and then work back from that.
Will update later hopefully with good news.
Many thanks,
David

 

[ManxViking]

We were chatting over coffee earlier this afternoon and working on the car without any joy and really confused.com as usual, my friends got the citroen ds5 version but is having his own issues as his gearbox is playing up but that's more homework for me ....
Ok, whilst we were chatting, my friend asked if the car runs if the HV pack stops working and that was an answer i didnt know, so I disconnected the hybrid pack from the car and cleared faults and tried to start the car and in cranked over and started! much to my amazement. I turned it off and then we removed the hybrid pack thinking it must be that. All cells and connections were good, voltages mid range so within scope. No issues found so put the pack back in.
After clearing the faults again, there were only 2 showing, 1 was the a/c compressor which i have the replacement ready to fit and 2 was this FD80 GSM module internal fault? When I have read about this it has been about the SOS button starting on green then flashing orange? The module itself isnt expensive on eBay but does this stop the car from running? If it does then that must be the issue. If not then i am no further except throwing some cash at replacement parts....which I would do if I was certain what the issue was.
I tried to add picks earlier but the system didnt like it so i will try again tomorrow ref checking fuses and the BGPA. and try to reduce the size.

David

 

[ManxViking]

One other thing as an FYI is that the gearbox selector in the centre consol doesn't light up, the 4 position one where you can select EV or sport etc etc.
Could that be another sign of something else?

D

 

[Ian M Davis]

It sounds like you have made some interesting discoveries.

What part of the traction battery did you disconnect. The whole thing or just one connector?

That is interesting about the console selector and needs investigating.

 

[ManxViking]

Hi Ian,

Both the HV pack and the electronics connector to the right hand side.
We weren't able to reproduce the same result.
Big questions are
1. Do I buy bgpa on the off chance it might be that?
2. Why doesn't the gearbox light come on when the ignition is switched on?
3. Would the game module stop the car from starting?

I am thinking of stripping the bgpa to get to the parts and relays in the middle. Worst case, I learnt something 😁

Bloody wish I'd managed to get that diagbox program to download.

David

 

[Ian M Davis]

I doubt the BPGA is the cause of the problem it is a very simple device. The parts list gives this part number for the Hybrid's BPGA as 96 668 514 80 so I think your BPGA looks like the image below (ref FranceAuto.pl | Części do aut francuskich). The light grey part in the top left is the relay. There are two busbars. I have marked them in red and blue. The blue busbar connects directly to the battery and the red busbar is switched on by the relay. If the relay is faulty it can be bypassed by just putting in a shorting link.

I am not sure if the fault code P0215 you got is significant but if any relay is faulty it is more likely to be R1 in the BSM (main engine fuse box).

I suspect there may be an issue with block 1760 "battery HT+ battery status supervisor" (see traction motor wiring diagram attached). This has power all the time from the 12V battery and may have been draining it.

I don't think a different copy of Diagbox will help. All copies that cover your car should read all the fault codes. The issue is that on later versions PSA locked some tele-coding functions which you don't need at the moment.

I can't answer questions 2 and 3 at this stage but 2 may be significant some gearboxes do inhibit cranking. What is a game module?

 

[Ian M Davis]

I had a look at the gearbox wiring diagram copy attached. It looks like a standard piloted gearbox. It doesn't show the "transmission mode selector". I found that on the tracking motor wiring diagram (item 6714). I remembered you said this unit was not illuminating so I looked at were it gets it power from and found it comes from Fuse 10 of the BSM (main engine fuse box). More importantly this fuse connects to relay 6. This relay is also related to the the steering lock and the immobiliser and I have known this to cause a no-start situation on a standard 508 diesel. In that case both the steering lock and fuse box had to replaced*. Fuse 10 also provides power to the 1919 power electrical unit and control unit.


* On that car the steering lock was jamming so I don't know if caused relay 6 to be damaged.

 

[ManxViking]

I doubt the BPGA is the cause of the problem it is a very simple device. The parts list gives this part number for the Hybrid's BPGA as 96 668 514 80 so I think your BPGA looks like the image below (ref FranceAuto.pl | Części do aut francuskich). The light grey part in the top left is the relay. There are two busbars. I have marked them in red and blue. The blue busbar connects directly to the battery and the red busbar is switched on by the relay. If the relay is faulty it can be bypassed by just putting in a shorting link.

I am not sure if the fault code P0215 you got is significant but if any relay is faulty it is more likely to be R1 in the BSM (main engine fuse box).

I suspect there may be an issue with block 1760 "battery HT+ battery status supervisor" (see traction motor wiring diagram attached). This has power all the time from the 12V battery and may have been draining it.

I don't think a different copy of Diagbox will help. All copies that cover your car should read all the fault codes. The issue is that on later versions PSA locked some tele-coding functions which you don't need at the moment.

I can't answer questions 2 and 3 at this stage but 2 may be significant some gearboxes do inhibit cranking. What is a game module?

View attachment 119334

 

[ManxViking]

I take it relay 6 is within the BSM itself and is something that I cannot take apart to get to?
I had originally checked all the fuses but what I will do this time is remove each fuse and refit again just in case there was a bad connection. Is it worth me taking out the BSM as photographed and attempting to get in to diagnose if the relay has failed within the unit? I wonder if anybody has ever tried to do that?

 

[ManxViking]

 

[ManxViking]

Good afternoon all ,
I have replaced the fuse box and still no success .
The thing that is confusing me is that there is still no lights showing on the centre knob for changing the mode of the vehicle, and the SOS light is still flashing and even after clearing all faults the SOS is still going on. Does this mean I need to take it to Peugeot to get them to reset the system?
Any thoughts gratefully received.

 

[denis1304]

Not long ago, I had a problem starting my 508... In the end, I "fixed" the problem by replacing a 3 months old battery with a new battery.
Food for thought.

 

[ManxViking]

Hi.
Thanks for that, whilst it was at a garage that couldn't fix it one of the things they did was to replace it with a brand new battery.
One new problem which has arisen today is that the system says it cannot communicate with the hybrid battery? At no time previously has that stated that or shown in a fault diagnosis. Odd.

 

[Ian M Davis]

The 508 engine fuse box (BSM) is unusual because it needs configuring. Your existing copy may be able to do this.

EDIT
I just checked Servicebox the parts list. It only show two fuse boxes. One is is ordered pre configured to match the VIN and the other has to be configured by the installer.

I found the fact that there wasn't a seperate fuse box for the Hybrid a bit surprising because the SEDRE lists two versions. However, while the fuse functions do change the actual fuse sizes are the same.

The offical spare part often has more fuses than the unit fitted to the car. It would be worth checking that your new fuse box has the same set of fuses as the original.

 

[ManxViking]

Good morning all,

Whilst I was working on the Peugeot, my friends Citroen DS5 hybrid was with me for the day so as you had mentioned the fuse boxes being the same I decided to take a risk and swap them.
After the swap I sat in the Peugeot and push the start button and the car started straight away, and then instantly died again. When I tried to stop the car again the engine was just cranking but there was no start.
I removed that citroën fuse box and put it back into the DS5 only to find then that that car would not start. It just cranked over and over and over. I decided to leave the car for the night as it was late and try again the following day but had a bad feeling that I may have ruined the Citroens fuse box.
Anyway came back to it the next morning plugged in the diagnostic and cleared any faults that were sat there and went to start the car and it started, so whatever the problem was had managed to fix itself overnight? Very strange. I have no managed to download diagbox onto a friend's laptop and I'm just waiting for Amazon to deliver the cable today at some point to be able to check finally what the fault codes or diagnosis is for both cars.
I'm really hopeful that I get some codes which makes sense and allow me to sort these problems once and for all.
Will update here later on this evening.