[Ian M Davis]

I think RedSector is on the right track. It is common for the term "main relay" to refer to the relay in the BPGA (AKA battery protection unit). This relates to the standard 12V battery not the traction battery.

From memory I think the 508 hybrid from 2012 used DW10CTED4 diesel engine which would operate like a normal diesel car if there was an issue with electric traction system.

A couple of questions:
Does the car have hands free access and start?
When you unlock the car do the side mirrors fold out. A sure sign of a faulty BPGA relay is the mirror don't deploy as soon as you unlock the car.

Note
If you are new to the 508 Hybrid one thing you should be aware of - is the reversible alternator drive belt needs to be changed at the specified time* and the change needs to be recorded as a new parts using Diagbox. There is a counter that records the amount of use the dive belt has and it will not allow the car to operate in hybrid mode if the belt is not changed and the counter cleared at the appropriate time.

* The schedule (Peugeot Servicebox) says the belt should be adjusted every year / 12,500 mile and replaced at:
3 years / 37,500 miles
6 years / 75,000 miles
9 years/ 112,500 miles

 

[Ian M Davis]

I have attached the Sevicebox procedure for the changing the auxiliaries belt.

I have attached the details of the BPGA (fuse box on top of the battery). The following fuses are controlled by the the BPGA relay: 3, 4, 9, 10, 11, 12 , 13, 16 and 17. Can you measure the voltage at one of these fuses relative to earth (or the battery negative terminal)? Note the blower control module is powered by fuse 10 of the BPGA.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Loads of info about Peugeot going online to reset the ECU after works done?? Any thoughts??

On later versions of Diagbox (after 7.58) Peugeot started making it necessary to connect to their server to do telecoding. However, given your car is from 2012 you should not need to connect to the server to update the new parts list. The only risk is you may need to install an older version of Diagbox (e.g. 7.57) see #13 of https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/diagbox-9-vm-install-guide.360282/

 

[Ian M Davis]

Hi Ian,
The voltages across the fuses remains the same as the battery, 12.3v seems alot of loss after yesterday having 13.5v

Regards,

David

12.3v does sound a bit low. The next thing to check is the master relay in the main engine fuse box (PFS1). I have attached the injection wiring diagram. This shows that relay R1 turns on power to fuse 30 in the engine fuse box. Are you able to check the voltage at this fuse with the ignition ON. A lot of fuses have some metal contacts on the top of the fuse which is a convenient position to put the meter probes. I have attached some data on PFS1. F30 is 30A but I can't tell which one of three 30A fuses is F30 from the diagram.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Hadn't realised it was free, was desperately looking for a solution and had seen Diagbox being used on a similar year to mine so found it on eBay..... £8 when should have been free...... never mind, if it gets me closer to sorting then compared to a £200 call out charge from a mobile mechanic its cheap.

David

If you ever get a newer Peugeot you may find several things are locked in Diagbox. If that happens you need to buy tokens and download the official copy of Diagbox from Servicebox. This will give you access to the Peugeot server for a fixed period.

In case you don't know Servicebox provides all parts lists and wiring diagrams. Here is the link to servicebox Service Box You need to register as a technician or engineer to access it. Fortunately for your car you are unlikely to need to use it because there are free installable virtual machine copies of Servcebox around that cover cars up to late 2013.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Just to clarify Servicebox has two payment types:
(i) Timed access to data similar to Hyundai
(ii) Tokens for server access only

 

[Ian M Davis]

Having a mare trying to get the diagbox to unpack. Am going to wipe my laptop to see if that helps. Can get it downloaded but its either .z7 or .rar files and without an exe file seems its an issue to unpack...... will keep trying.

What are you using to unpack the files? I usually use the free application 7Zip. Once 7zip is installed right click the .rar file and select 7Zip from the menu.

EDIT
Most of these virtual machines run on VMware. I suggest you use the link RedSector provided to VMWare player see #62 of https://www.peugeotforums.com/threa...hreads/recurring-fault-brainstorming.372965/page-4?post_id=2427802#post-2427802

 

[Ian M Davis]

Tried that, thats why i am trying to clear the laptop to see if i can then access these unpacking programs

The way I unpack the files - is put the download .rar files in a desktop folder and unpack them in that folder. This will create a new folder inside the desktop folder - similar to that below.

The next step is to open VMware and select "Open a Virtual Machine" from the list on the RHS. Then navigate to the unpacked folder and select the active file (.vmx). This will then load the virtual machine. When asked select "I Moved it"

 

[Ian M Davis]

Tried and failed 4 times with different versions........ sorry, seemingly beyond me

Did you manage to get VMware installed and running?

I understand you bought Diagbox on eBay. Can you give us some information on that installation:
Was it a Virtual machine version?
Which PC and operating system did you install it on?

 

[Ian M Davis]

I have tried an early version, 7.57, tried the ebay version 9.15. Takes a while to download. one was .z7 file, which i downloaded the extractor and WinRaR. But I dont know what im doing. Normally files are .exe and have a setup wizard to guide through the unpacking process, almost click and go. The eBay item is Diagbox Lexia Citroen Peugeot Opel/Vauxhall Diagnostics PSA 2023 | eBay which gave me the following link

Thank you for purchase. Please see download link below. Copy and paste to the browser. Link will be valid for 7days.If you need more time, just let me know. Content is packed by winrar. Install instruction included.

IMPORTANT
1. Turn off antivirus/windows defender on installation time
2. Extract downloaded file to root c:
3. Follow video instruction

File on MEGA

mega.nz

The version you bought on eBay is direct install version designed to run directly on a 64bit Windows operating system.
The direct install versions of Diagbox 7.xx only run on 32 bit windows operating systems. To get around this several people have created a complete image of their system including all applications and operating systems. This image is known as a virtual machine. To run a virtual machine you need to install VMware*. When I open VMware on my Windows 10 machine I get the screen shown below. On the left side it lists the virtual machines I have installed which are 7 different VMs. If for example I click on Diagbox V7.58 it loads Windows XP - see second image below.

* Some virtual machines use Oracle Virtual Box instead of VMware but these are less common.

 

[Ian M Davis]

This what my screen looks like when I right click the downloaded zipped file. There are several options. I just click Extract Here and it will create the virtual machine folder at the same location.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Unfortunately mine doesnt give me the option to 'extract to'. Please see below picture
View attachment 118357

It looks like you have opened the application WinRAR. I usually select the folder using Windows Explorer and right click the file. However, if you want to proceed as you are doing select "Extract to specific folder". I suggest you create a folder on your desktop first so you know where it is.

I've downloaded the VMware workstation. But i get a different view of the opening menu. View attachment 118356

Not sure how to extract the file from WinRar to here?

Thanks

David

It looks like you have downloaded the latest VMware Workstation instead of the old VMware Player 17. I not familiar with this version of VMware but I suspect it is the similar to the Mac version (VMWare Fusion) I use. Once you have extract the Virtual machine files to a folder as I described. Open VMware Workstation and select File- Open and navigate to the folder containing the virtual machine.

Note Player 17 is no longer available from VMware. Their new owner Broadcom have made the more advanced version VMware Workstation free instead but if you want Player RedSector found a download link at Downloading VMware Player 17.0.2 Build 21581411 from FileHorse.com

 

[Ian M Davis]

I think we got bogged down on installing Diagbox rather than addressing the problem. I think we need to go back to your original diagbox result diagnostic code: P0215 - Main relay - Poor operation of relay. Do you have a multimeter?

 

[Ian M Davis]

I think we got as far as checking the BPGA. What I want to do is go back to #10 of this discussion and check relay R1 in the engine fusebox (PFS1). This relay provides power to fuse F30 and is the main supply to the engine ECU. The problem I had last time is I couldn't identify fuse 30 on the fuse box diagram. It is a 30A fuse but there are three 30A fuses next to each other. There should be a marking on the fusebox but if not if you turn the ignition on only one of the three should have power. The other two are the air-conditioner compressor and the starter motor solenoid. What I want you to do is measure the voltage at F30 with the ignition on. If you are not sure which is F30 measure at all three.

Can you also post a photo of the engine fuse box PFS1.

 

[Ian M Davis]

I was just looking at the photo of the dash at #9 and one thing that concerns me is the car appears to be in the "Charge Zone" I just realised this the rate of charge not the 200V battery charge state but it raises a good question has it been showing a rate of charge when the engine was running. but it is showing no charge or very low charge. This suggests the 200V battery has a low charge. That doesn't matter that much except if my memory serves me correct the standard 12V battery is charged by the 200V system.

One thing I am not sure of - does the car crank? If it does it would be worth measuring the 12V battery voltage during cranking.

 

[Ian M Davis]

The car has a brand new 12 volt battery on it as the previous one was only showing 4 volts after being sat at the first garage for a week so I decided to replace the battery as a precaution.
The car does not crank. This might suggest that one computer is talking to another to say that the parameters have not been met so do not start?
Need a step-by-step procedure to work through and cancel out various potential issues in order to be able to get to the end result. I am wondering if such a thing exists.

Thank you so much for your help.

David

I am surprised the 12V battery voltage dropped like that. The BPGA should disconnect most things that drain the battery.

All you can do is look at the diagnostic code and then look for the cause. Unfortunately, diagnostic codes don't always pin point the fault. The main thing to check if the engine ECU is getting power.

I have attached the starting diagram. The engine fusebox processor controls the cranking and there are several things that need to be right before it allows cranking. For example if the engine RCU is not getting full power the car will not crank.

Do you know if the the steering is unlocking?

 

[Ian M Davis]

Do you know if the car was using the rear electric motor to power the car before the breakdown? The reason I ask is the 12V battery is charged by the 200V traction battery. Early on in the the investigation (#8) you found that the voltage at the BPGA dropped from 13.5V to 12.3V and later after a week's storage it further dropped to 4V. I suspect there is parasitic drain on the 12V battery possibly via the charging system.

When the car is locked the relay in the BPGA should disconnect most of the load on the 12V battery so it should not have discharged during a week's storage. However, there is a continuous connection to the traction battery monitor and I wonder if this is draining the 12V battery.

 

[Ian M Davis]

It sounds like you have made some interesting discoveries.

What part of the traction battery did you disconnect. The whole thing or just one connector?

That is interesting about the console selector and needs investigating.

 

[Ian M Davis]

I doubt the BPGA is the cause of the problem it is a very simple device. The parts list gives this part number for the Hybrid's BPGA as 96 668 514 80 so I think your BPGA looks like the image below (ref FranceAuto.pl | Części do aut francuskich). The light grey part in the top left is the relay. There are two busbars. I have marked them in red and blue. The blue busbar connects directly to the battery and the red busbar is switched on by the relay. If the relay is faulty it can be bypassed by just putting in a shorting link.

I am not sure if the fault code P0215 you got is significant but if any relay is faulty it is more likely to be R1 in the BSM (main engine fuse box).

I suspect there may be an issue with block 1760 "battery HT+ battery status supervisor" (see traction motor wiring diagram attached). This has power all the time from the 12V battery and may have been draining it.

I don't think a different copy of Diagbox will help. All copies that cover your car should read all the fault codes. The issue is that on later versions PSA locked some tele-coding functions which you don't need at the moment.

I can't answer questions 2 and 3 at this stage but 2 may be significant some gearboxes do inhibit cranking. What is a game module?

 

[Ian M Davis]

I had a look at the gearbox wiring diagram copy attached. It looks like a standard piloted gearbox. It doesn't show the "transmission mode selector". I found that on the tracking motor wiring diagram (item 6714). I remembered you said this unit was not illuminating so I looked at were it gets it power from and found it comes from Fuse 10 of the BSM (main engine fuse box). More importantly this fuse connects to relay 6. This relay is also related to the the steering lock and the immobiliser and I have known this to cause a no-start situation on a standard 508 diesel. In that case both the steering lock and fuse box had to replaced*. Fuse 10 also provides power to the 1919 power electrical unit and control unit.


* On that car the steering lock was jamming so I don't know if caused relay 6 to be damaged.