Hello, so I bought a 2017 2l boxer in December and have been converting it over winter, I haven’t been driving it so it has been sat a while but I’ve been ticking it over plenty and it always started straight away no problems.
I ended up draining the battery by accident so replaced it but I had the battery out for a week or so whilst my replacement came (I ordered the wrong one first time oops) now the engine won’t turn over, at first I was getting nothing at all turning the key but I noticed the ecu fuse had blown so I replaced it, now cranks but no start.
it starts with a quick start spray but quickly stops afterwards. I am also getting a continuous buzz from the engine (hard to isolate exactly) even with the ignition off. My side lights are also on continuously when ignition is on but I’m not sure if that’s normal?
I got a guy out to try and diagnose it but after two hours best he could say was maybe probably the immobiliser as we tried everything I’d already tried, plus we got a P0513 code with his swanky snapon diagnostic tool.
I called a key guy up but he said it doesn’t sound like a key problem as it cranks and I can still lock/unlock the van fine and I’ve got no dash lights to say bad key/immobiliser.

Peugeot just told me to bring it in and they can diagnose, but I can’t drive the bloody thing?! plus god knows how much money to push some reset buttons on a screen

any help would be greatly appreciated on how what the hell could be up with it or how I can reset my immobiliser/bsi as I really need this to run but I’m skint

If you Google P0513 it says incorrect immobiliser key which makes a lot sense. The immobiliser locks ECU so the vehicle will crank but the injectors will not fire.

The immobiliser is built in to the ECU and BSI. If the battery runs flat or is disconnected while the BSI is awake it can corrupt or completely wipes the BSI. When you say you can unlock the van with the key do the remote buttons work? If they do there is a chance the BSI is okay.

I understand that the immobiliser light is going out which is what page 18 of the 2017 Boxer handbook said should happen (see attachment). I understand a fuse associated with ECU blew so the problem may be with the ECU part of the immobiliser. The only way to determine this is with a Peugeot diagnostic tool. Given that you can't move the van it may be worth considering buying a good Chinese clone of Peugeot tool they are not that expensive and many forum member own them but you need a suitable laptop.

Your simplest solution is to try and find a replacement ECU kit consisting of the ECU, BSI and key PCB from donor vehicle. Alternatively some automotive locksmiths know a lot about immobiliser so may be able to sort out your BSI or ECU.

 

If you Google P0513 it says incorrect immobiliser key which makes a lot sense. The immobiliser locks ECU so the vehicle will crank but the injectors will not fire.

The immobiliser is built in to the ECU and BSI. If the battery runs flat or is disconnected while the BSI is awake it can corrupt or completely wipes the BSI. When you say you can unlock the van with the key do the remote buttons work? If they do there is a chance the BSI is okay.

I understand that the immobiliser light is going out which is what page 18 of the 2017 Boxer handbook said should happen (see attachment). I understand a fuse associated with ECU blew so the problem may be with the ECU part of the immobiliser. The only way to determine this is with a Peugeot diagnostic tool. Given that you can't move the van it may be worth considering buying a good Chinese clone of Peugeot tool they are not that expensive and many forum member own them but you need a suitable laptop.

Your simplest solution is to try and find a replacement ECU kit consisting of the ECU, BSI and key PCB from donor vehicle. Alternatively some automotive locksmiths know a lot about immobiliser so may be able to sort out your BSI or ECU.

thank you for some insights, yeh I had googled that but when I told all my symptoms to the auto key specialist he said otherwise so I took his opinion as probably better than mine, as he said it simply wouldn’t crank if it was the keys, but then another Peugeot guy said it would? aaahhhh

When you say remote buttons, I assume you just mean the locking buttons on the key fob? If so, yes they all work fine, although I’m having to lock it manually as I have to disconnect the battery because this constant buzz from the engine is draining it.

I might call another Peugeot expert who’s local-ish, and another auto locksmith just for two more opinions then I’ll make a decision from there. I’ll also look into this diagnostic tool you speak of because I can’t help but feel it’ll save me a lot of money down the line also!

 

Nah, Nissan for example use a no crank immobiliser. Mitsubishi / Kia / BMW and most Bosch ECU nearly always disconnect fuel / injectors. Peugeot appears to me to favour the injectors as the means of control for the immobiliser. I actually can't think of one (Peugeot) that uses no crank immobiliser, they may exist but not something I called normal for them.

 

There is an easy was to check if the transponder stops the van from cranking. On later model keys the immobiliser transponder and remote entry transmitter are on the keys printed circuit board. In most keys it is possible to remove the circuit board from the key case. Hence, I suggest you remove the printed circuit board from your key and see if the car still cranks. My bet is it will still crank.

Note on early model vehicles the key had two parts: a small black chip in the corner of the key case and a PCB for remote locking. The small black chip was the transponder but on later keys they integrated the transponder in to a chip on the PCB.

 

Wait so if I do this, what information is this giving me? If it still cranks then it’s not a key problem? Or it is a key problem?

 

One question. The fuses should be numbered do you know the number of the fuse you replaced. No 18?

 

Yes it was no. 18 for engine management

 

I agree the blown fuse and the buzzing are the real issues. You may have been getting a immobiliser fault code from the SnapOn tool because of an issue with the ECU. I suspect more than one fuse has blown. My worry is why the fuse blew.

 

Yeh it is a bit of a head scratcher, I actually think fuse 18 blew when I went to check if it was blown (I tried once and couldn’t get it out because of its tricky position, but I tried again a day or so later which is when I realised it had actually blown)

but once I replaced it I then started getting cranks whereas before that I was getting nothing at all, so a bit odd.. Nothing looks corroded or melted/burnt/damaged that I can see though

 

An update, ended up getting aome auto techs out, they said it’s definitely the keys as they reprogrammed the ecu and it’s still doing the same thing, they didn’t know what the ringing from the engine was. Sooo I called a key guy, he was very doubtful but came out anyway free of charge just to double check the keys weren’t the problem, they aren’t... he’s getting me another auto technician to come on Friday with him. The story continues...

 

Thanks for the update.

I looked at the wiring for a Boxer with a Euro 5 engine which is likely to be similar to the later Euro 6 engine. Fuse 18 only provides power to the coil of a relay in the fusebox. This relay is controlled by the ECU and provides power to a lot of services including a main power line for the ECU.

I think this fuse was responsible for the P0531 code your first visitor got with the SnapOn tool. I think the code is now "historical". Unless you clear a code with a diagnostic tool it will take several starts to auto clear. However, it is probably why everyone blames the key.

The starter motor solenoid is controlled by a relay which is operated by the ECU. Fuse 18 is not shown in the starting wiring diagram which implies it should not affect the starter motor but I think that is just an oversight. The ECU needs fuse 18 to work properly.

With regard to the buzzing there are several things with a permanent battery connection:
(i) Alternator
(ii) Starter motor
(iii) BSI
(iv) ABS/ESP (via fuse 1 and 23)
(v) Glow plug relay (via fuse 2)
The glow plug relay should only close when the ignition is on. However, these relays often have problems so I wonder if it's stuck in the closed position. If you want to investigate that you could remove fuse 2 and see if the buzzing stops.

 

Thanks for the update.

I looked at the wiring for a Boxer with a Euro 5 engine which is likely to be similar to the later Euro 6 engine. Fuse 18 only provides power to the coil of a relay in the fusebox. This relay is controlled by the ECU and provides power to a lot of services including a main power line for the ECU.

I think this fuse was responsible for the P0531 code your first visitor got with the SnapOn tool. I think the code is now "historical". Unless you clear a code with a diagnostic tool it will take several starts to auto clear. However, it is probably why everyone blames the key.

The starter motor solenoid is controlled by a relay which is operated by the ECU. Fuse 18 is not shown in the starting wiring diagram which implies it should not affect the starter motor but I think that is just an oversight. The ECU needs fuse 18 to work properly.

With regard to the buzzing there are several things with a permanent battery connection:
(i) Alternator
(ii) Starter motor
(iii) BSI
(iv) ABS/ESP (via fuse 1 and 23)
(v) Glow plug relay (via fuse 2)
The glow plug relay should only close when the ignition is on. However, these relays often have problems so I wonder if it's stuck in the closed position. If you want to investigate that you could remove fuse 2 and see if the buzzing stops.

Wow, thank you so much. I will go and try that later on
the ringing/buzzing is coming pretty much directly from the engine though??

 

Bit of an update, another auto tech guy came with the same locksmith as before, notices how strange it’s behaving. He clears and reprograms the ecu, still nothing. Problems with communication from the bsi and ecu and immobiliser, the immobiliser recognises the keys I have. He tested a few fuses and noticed how some are reading battery voltage on the live side but then are reading 2-8volts on the other?! so I guess it’s a case of checking all that wiring as he is assuming that voltage problem is causing the compute to bug out.
still couldn’t isolate/turn off the ringing coming from the engine though...

 

He tested a few fuses and noticed how some are reading battery voltage on the live side but then are reading 2-8volts on the other?! .

I think what he means that there is full battery voltage in parts of the fuse box but only 8V at other parts. The only way you would get 12V on one side of a fuse and 8V on the other side is if the fuse is blown. Many fuses are relay controlled and the various modules throughout the van have multiple power connections so 8V at a fuse that is turned off is possible.

It sounds like the BSI and key are communicating okay but there is no communication between the BSI and ECU. These are connected via computer bus called a CAN bus. In most cases if you unplug the ABS it disconnects the CAN bus link between the BSI and ECU. it would be worth checking the ABS connector. Is there any chance water has got in the ABS connector? That often stops the CAN bus from working.

I am still wondering about the sound you are getting. Could it be from the ABS pump. There is usually three battery connection to the ABS. Two of these are on all the time. The other is to the ABS controller. The ABS pump shouldn't be running but if there is something wrong with its controller it would explain a lot.

If you want to have a go yourself and have access to a multimeter I should be able to guide you through.

 

One easy check to is measure the resistance of the main CAN bus. It looks like the van has the conventional diagnostic connection so we should be able to do this at the diagnostic connector.

The first thing to do is disconnect the battery. Remember to follow the 3 minute rule. Everything need to be off and the key removed, drivers window open for access if possible, doors shut (not locked) and then wait at least 3 minutes before disconnecting the battery.

Then put the multimeter on the Ohms scale (Ω) and measure the resistance between pins 6 and 14 of the OBD connector. It should read 60 Ohms but if it reads 120 Ohms it means the ECU is not connected.

 

When car batteries run flat it can corrupt the electronics. This may be why the guy rewrote the ECU. It is more common for this to corrupt the BSI. Removing fuse 18 may have rebooted the ECU.

I have looked through the wiring diagrams for your van and there is also another important ECU fuse - Fuse 16 which is not listed in some documentation. This fuse provides a second power supply to the ECU when the ignition is ON. Fuses usually have bare piece of metal showing on both sides of the fuse. This is a convenient place to measure voltage with the fuse in place. Are you able to turn the ignition ON and check the voltage on both sides of fuse 16. It would also be worth checking it with the ignition OFF.

The last people who worked on the van my have done this but it might be worth doing a full reboot of the whole the whole system. This link will take you a set of reboot instructions.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=61997

One other test worth doing is remove fuse 18 again and see if the engine noise stops. If it stops there may be a faulty relay in the fuse/relay box at the front left of the engine compartment.

 

Hello, Did you solve this problem ?