I have seen countless threads relating to misfire codes but few seem to offer any answers so I hope this one will reach a conclusion. I'll apologise now this could be a long post!
The car is a 2010 308 1.6 VTI. It is the 5FW engine with the double cam dephasers. It has done almost 203,000 miles and never had a timing chain!!!! The car has variously thrown depollution faults, I replaced the catalytic converter 10 months ago although I have to admit it was a cheap one, about £120.00 IIRC.
Anyway, the car went to a main dealer for service, yes, my partner takes it to a main dealer for servicing - this isn't as crazy as you might think BUT despite what they charge for "diagnostics" they don't seem to know much about basic spannering.
The car was collected and died on the way home - total electrical mayhem. Dead battery......mmmmmmmmm. Towed it home, applied jump leads got it fired up. You name it the warnings were on; power steering, ABS, MIL, Depollution etc. Checked for charge - the alternator is dead. I must say, pretty impressed it managed over 200k, looked at brushes - nothing left. Slip rings well worn but I'll stick some brushes on it for now (when they arrive) to get it going.
So thing number 1, check battery and charging. Weak electricals will cause havoc.
I was aware the car was puffing a bit of blue smoke and had been for some time. I was thinking rings or valve stem seals, either way, burning oil would likely explain depollution faults which could in turn lead to misfiring. Did lots of reading - the engine is apparently notorious for valve stem seals but also various other maladies, some minor, some terminal. The service sheet from the dealer was suggesting the catalytic converter was on the way out because they recorded a P0420 code. I wasn't convinced but it was clear the car won't pass an emissions test come MOT in July.
The dilemma is the car is not worth much but the cost of fixing it is probably more than it is worth but still cheaper than buying in to another car. After all, it has just had new rear pads and discs and oil service. I said to the other half, I'll look in to it and see what I can find.
I pulled the plugs - they were properly grim. Clearly main dealers don't know how to remove plugs to give them a visual check. They were black and sooted up and the plug gaps were 1mm+. I was amazed it ran at all. I rememebered from when I changed the catalytic converter there was heavy soot deposits on ports 1 and 2, this would have been from leaky valve stem seals, I decided the best thing to do would be to replace the valve stem seals and at the same time assess the timing chain and tensioner. While I was diving in I thought it might be useful to do a leak test on the cylinders, after all, I would need to rely on air pressure to hold the valves closed when doing the stem seals. All pots were good, only a gentle blow by on the rings (engine cold), no valve losses and nothing to indicate head gasket problems.
I have replaced the valve stem seals, that actually wasn't a bad job, the collets are a bit small and fiddly and the lower part of the windscreen gets in the way of the tools - yes I did manage to crack the bottom of the screen!!!!!
This is where the fun starts. The timing chain tensioner was very loose and probably 50% backed out of its port. The main dealer had said the tensioner was leaking oil but obviously couldn't be bothered to see if it was loose. That was annoying. I pulled the tensioner out - in two pieces! No going back now. I used the "pre-tensioning tool" to measure the deflection of the chain; let's just say it was a bit out of tolerance. I am truly impressed that even with a timing chain this worn, it didn't sound like a bag of nails and mostly ran quite well, looked at the chain guides and actually not bad at all.
I replaced the timing chain, guides, tensioner and bottom sprocket. I was happy the dephasers were OK. I put it all back together, timed the cams, charged the battery and went for a start. It fired up alright but there was the mother of all misfires at idle and of course the attendant engine light and message of doom. The misfire appeared to be less noticeable with some revs - odd I thought. I read fault codes using a generic Autel OBD scanner. Misfires and a timing issue are logged.
"That's odd" I thought. Checked ignition coils by swapping them around but it was clear pots 1 and 2 weren't doing anything. I put the new plugs in - no change.
I was concerned the cam timing might be out. So..... deep breath, cam cover off and go back in. Yes, looks like the inlet cam was just a little out, so I reset it. I made sure all the pistons were level, measuring their position with a 300mm vernier - a standard 150mm vernier is not long enough BTW. I adjust the dephasers, lucky I had an extra pair of bolts (more by luck than judgement). The timing tools slip perfectly on to the cam shafts, I nip up the bolts turn it all over and re-check. All good, torque up the dephasers and put it all back together.
I fire it up again. Initially, everything was good, then within only 2 or 3 seconds, engine light on, misfire, depollution error message and that wave of disappointment washes over me. Harsh language ensued. Code reader plugged in shows P1336, P1337 and P1338. Interstingly, no P0420.
I have looked through reams of posts across numerous forums (or should that be fora?) and there is no apparent consensus as to root cause. I also observeed the scurge of many a forum of one post wonders saying "please help" and "urgent" but they never come back and close their thread by saying if they found a fix.... or not. A forum is there for help and moral support but you can only really benefit if you contribute.... I'll get off my soap box now.
Currently, I have reloaded the Peugeot Parts Cannon and await delivery of a pair of cam sensors, genuine Bosch off a certain website. It's a Hail Mary, but a cheaper initial option. I will also be picking up a used alternator so i can keep it running while I check codes and pull leads. I have re-checked cam timing, it is, as far as I can tell, spot on but I have ordered a digital inclinometer to measure the camshaft position to double check my double check. I have been battling this misfire for a full 3 days and I'm close to a sense of humour bypass.
Other things I have done included pulling the fuel rail. this should be an easy enough operation but not on an engine where the rail hasn't been touched in 14 years. What a struggle. I had to use a lot of force, the rail came out but left the injectors still in their ports. I had to use mole grips and more brute force to pull the injectors. I cleaned them up with carb cleaner, re-attached them to the rail and applied 12v to each injector, they all work. I filled the rail with carb cleaner and pressurised it then individually cycled each injector. I repeated the process a couple of times then used just compressed air. I then put the injectors back in. Even after all of this, the engine still misfires at idle but not when revved which is very strange so I can't decide if this is an ignition problem, an injection issue or a failing ecu.
I am happy the coils and plugs are good - the plugs are new and swapping coils makes no difference. I bought two cheap coils to do a substitution test and had the same result. Checking injectors is not something I know how to do....maybe a noid light could do the trick. I'll have a think about that.
I also think I will deal with the alternator and do the cam sensors then see what happens. If anybody has any thoughts or pointers for things to check I would be grateful. I am wondering if I should do the crank sensor as well, but there is no evidence to say it needs it, just a funny feeling if you know what I mean. I will come back with an update in a few days but I have to say this car is testing my patience and that's saying something.
The car is a 2010 308 1.6 VTI. It is the 5FW engine with the double cam dephasers. It has done almost 203,000 miles and never had a timing chain!!!! The car has variously thrown depollution faults, I replaced the catalytic converter 10 months ago although I have to admit it was a cheap one, about £120.00 IIRC.
Anyway, the car went to a main dealer for service, yes, my partner takes it to a main dealer for servicing - this isn't as crazy as you might think BUT despite what they charge for "diagnostics" they don't seem to know much about basic spannering.
The car was collected and died on the way home - total electrical mayhem. Dead battery......mmmmmmmmm. Towed it home, applied jump leads got it fired up. You name it the warnings were on; power steering, ABS, MIL, Depollution etc. Checked for charge - the alternator is dead. I must say, pretty impressed it managed over 200k, looked at brushes - nothing left. Slip rings well worn but I'll stick some brushes on it for now (when they arrive) to get it going.
So thing number 1, check battery and charging. Weak electricals will cause havoc.
I was aware the car was puffing a bit of blue smoke and had been for some time. I was thinking rings or valve stem seals, either way, burning oil would likely explain depollution faults which could in turn lead to misfiring. Did lots of reading - the engine is apparently notorious for valve stem seals but also various other maladies, some minor, some terminal. The service sheet from the dealer was suggesting the catalytic converter was on the way out because they recorded a P0420 code. I wasn't convinced but it was clear the car won't pass an emissions test come MOT in July.
The dilemma is the car is not worth much but the cost of fixing it is probably more than it is worth but still cheaper than buying in to another car. After all, it has just had new rear pads and discs and oil service. I said to the other half, I'll look in to it and see what I can find.
I pulled the plugs - they were properly grim. Clearly main dealers don't know how to remove plugs to give them a visual check. They were black and sooted up and the plug gaps were 1mm+. I was amazed it ran at all. I rememebered from when I changed the catalytic converter there was heavy soot deposits on ports 1 and 2, this would have been from leaky valve stem seals, I decided the best thing to do would be to replace the valve stem seals and at the same time assess the timing chain and tensioner. While I was diving in I thought it might be useful to do a leak test on the cylinders, after all, I would need to rely on air pressure to hold the valves closed when doing the stem seals. All pots were good, only a gentle blow by on the rings (engine cold), no valve losses and nothing to indicate head gasket problems.
I have replaced the valve stem seals, that actually wasn't a bad job, the collets are a bit small and fiddly and the lower part of the windscreen gets in the way of the tools - yes I did manage to crack the bottom of the screen!!!!!
This is where the fun starts. The timing chain tensioner was very loose and probably 50% backed out of its port. The main dealer had said the tensioner was leaking oil but obviously couldn't be bothered to see if it was loose. That was annoying. I pulled the tensioner out - in two pieces! No going back now. I used the "pre-tensioning tool" to measure the deflection of the chain; let's just say it was a bit out of tolerance. I am truly impressed that even with a timing chain this worn, it didn't sound like a bag of nails and mostly ran quite well, looked at the chain guides and actually not bad at all.
I replaced the timing chain, guides, tensioner and bottom sprocket. I was happy the dephasers were OK. I put it all back together, timed the cams, charged the battery and went for a start. It fired up alright but there was the mother of all misfires at idle and of course the attendant engine light and message of doom. The misfire appeared to be less noticeable with some revs - odd I thought. I read fault codes using a generic Autel OBD scanner. Misfires and a timing issue are logged.
"That's odd" I thought. Checked ignition coils by swapping them around but it was clear pots 1 and 2 weren't doing anything. I put the new plugs in - no change.
I was concerned the cam timing might be out. So..... deep breath, cam cover off and go back in. Yes, looks like the inlet cam was just a little out, so I reset it. I made sure all the pistons were level, measuring their position with a 300mm vernier - a standard 150mm vernier is not long enough BTW. I adjust the dephasers, lucky I had an extra pair of bolts (more by luck than judgement). The timing tools slip perfectly on to the cam shafts, I nip up the bolts turn it all over and re-check. All good, torque up the dephasers and put it all back together.
I fire it up again. Initially, everything was good, then within only 2 or 3 seconds, engine light on, misfire, depollution error message and that wave of disappointment washes over me. Harsh language ensued. Code reader plugged in shows P1336, P1337 and P1338. Interstingly, no P0420.
I have looked through reams of posts across numerous forums (or should that be fora?) and there is no apparent consensus as to root cause. I also observeed the scurge of many a forum of one post wonders saying "please help" and "urgent" but they never come back and close their thread by saying if they found a fix.... or not. A forum is there for help and moral support but you can only really benefit if you contribute.... I'll get off my soap box now.
Currently, I have reloaded the Peugeot Parts Cannon and await delivery of a pair of cam sensors, genuine Bosch off a certain website. It's a Hail Mary, but a cheaper initial option. I will also be picking up a used alternator so i can keep it running while I check codes and pull leads. I have re-checked cam timing, it is, as far as I can tell, spot on but I have ordered a digital inclinometer to measure the camshaft position to double check my double check. I have been battling this misfire for a full 3 days and I'm close to a sense of humour bypass.
Other things I have done included pulling the fuel rail. this should be an easy enough operation but not on an engine where the rail hasn't been touched in 14 years. What a struggle. I had to use a lot of force, the rail came out but left the injectors still in their ports. I had to use mole grips and more brute force to pull the injectors. I cleaned them up with carb cleaner, re-attached them to the rail and applied 12v to each injector, they all work. I filled the rail with carb cleaner and pressurised it then individually cycled each injector. I repeated the process a couple of times then used just compressed air. I then put the injectors back in. Even after all of this, the engine still misfires at idle but not when revved which is very strange so I can't decide if this is an ignition problem, an injection issue or a failing ecu.
I am happy the coils and plugs are good - the plugs are new and swapping coils makes no difference. I bought two cheap coils to do a substitution test and had the same result. Checking injectors is not something I know how to do....maybe a noid light could do the trick. I'll have a think about that.
I also think I will deal with the alternator and do the cam sensors then see what happens. If anybody has any thoughts or pointers for things to check I would be grateful. I am wondering if I should do the crank sensor as well, but there is no evidence to say it needs it, just a funny feeling if you know what I mean. I will come back with an update in a few days but I have to say this car is testing my patience and that's saying something.
