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Another misfire thread P1336 P1337 P1338

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13K views 43 replies 15 participants last post by  arducerdal  
#1 ·
I have seen countless threads relating to misfire codes but few seem to offer any answers so I hope this one will reach a conclusion. I'll apologise now this could be a long post!

The car is a 2010 308 1.6 VTI. It is the 5FW engine with the double cam dephasers. It has done almost 203,000 miles and never had a timing chain!!!! The car has variously thrown depollution faults, I replaced the catalytic converter 10 months ago although I have to admit it was a cheap one, about ÂŁ120.00 IIRC.

Anyway, the car went to a main dealer for service, yes, my partner takes it to a main dealer for servicing - this isn't as crazy as you might think BUT despite what they charge for "diagnostics" they don't seem to know much about basic spannering.

The car was collected and died on the way home - total electrical mayhem. Dead battery......mmmmmmmmm. Towed it home, applied jump leads got it fired up. You name it the warnings were on; power steering, ABS, MIL, Depollution etc. Checked for charge - the alternator is dead. I must say, pretty impressed it managed over 200k, looked at brushes - nothing left. Slip rings well worn but I'll stick some brushes on it for now (when they arrive) to get it going.

So thing number 1, check battery and charging. Weak electricals will cause havoc.

I was aware the car was puffing a bit of blue smoke and had been for some time. I was thinking rings or valve stem seals, either way, burning oil would likely explain depollution faults which could in turn lead to misfiring. Did lots of reading - the engine is apparently notorious for valve stem seals but also various other maladies, some minor, some terminal. The service sheet from the dealer was suggesting the catalytic converter was on the way out because they recorded a P0420 code. I wasn't convinced but it was clear the car won't pass an emissions test come MOT in July.

The dilemma is the car is not worth much but the cost of fixing it is probably more than it is worth but still cheaper than buying in to another car. After all, it has just had new rear pads and discs and oil service. I said to the other half, I'll look in to it and see what I can find.

I pulled the plugs - they were properly grim. Clearly main dealers don't know how to remove plugs to give them a visual check. They were black and sooted up and the plug gaps were 1mm+. I was amazed it ran at all. I rememebered from when I changed the catalytic converter there was heavy soot deposits on ports 1 and 2, this would have been from leaky valve stem seals, I decided the best thing to do would be to replace the valve stem seals and at the same time assess the timing chain and tensioner. While I was diving in I thought it might be useful to do a leak test on the cylinders, after all, I would need to rely on air pressure to hold the valves closed when doing the stem seals. All pots were good, only a gentle blow by on the rings (engine cold), no valve losses and nothing to indicate head gasket problems.

I have replaced the valve stem seals, that actually wasn't a bad job, the collets are a bit small and fiddly and the lower part of the windscreen gets in the way of the tools - yes I did manage to crack the bottom of the screen!!!!!

This is where the fun starts. The timing chain tensioner was very loose and probably 50% backed out of its port. The main dealer had said the tensioner was leaking oil but obviously couldn't be bothered to see if it was loose. That was annoying. I pulled the tensioner out - in two pieces! No going back now. I used the "pre-tensioning tool" to measure the deflection of the chain; let's just say it was a bit out of tolerance. I am truly impressed that even with a timing chain this worn, it didn't sound like a bag of nails and mostly ran quite well, looked at the chain guides and actually not bad at all.

I replaced the timing chain, guides, tensioner and bottom sprocket. I was happy the dephasers were OK. I put it all back together, timed the cams, charged the battery and went for a start. It fired up alright but there was the mother of all misfires at idle and of course the attendant engine light and message of doom. The misfire appeared to be less noticeable with some revs - odd I thought. I read fault codes using a generic Autel OBD scanner. Misfires and a timing issue are logged.

"That's odd" I thought. Checked ignition coils by swapping them around but it was clear pots 1 and 2 weren't doing anything. I put the new plugs in - no change.

I was concerned the cam timing might be out. So..... deep breath, cam cover off and go back in. Yes, looks like the inlet cam was just a little out, so I reset it. I made sure all the pistons were level, measuring their position with a 300mm vernier - a standard 150mm vernier is not long enough BTW. I adjust the dephasers, lucky I had an extra pair of bolts (more by luck than judgement). The timing tools slip perfectly on to the cam shafts, I nip up the bolts turn it all over and re-check. All good, torque up the dephasers and put it all back together.

I fire it up again. Initially, everything was good, then within only 2 or 3 seconds, engine light on, misfire, depollution error message and that wave of disappointment washes over me. Harsh language ensued. Code reader plugged in shows P1336, P1337 and P1338. Interstingly, no P0420.

I have looked through reams of posts across numerous forums (or should that be fora?) and there is no apparent consensus as to root cause. I also observeed the scurge of many a forum of one post wonders saying "please help" and "urgent" but they never come back and close their thread by saying if they found a fix.... or not. A forum is there for help and moral support but you can only really benefit if you contribute.... I'll get off my soap box now.

Currently, I have reloaded the Peugeot Parts Cannon and await delivery of a pair of cam sensors, genuine Bosch off a certain website. It's a Hail Mary, but a cheaper initial option. I will also be picking up a used alternator so i can keep it running while I check codes and pull leads. I have re-checked cam timing, it is, as far as I can tell, spot on but I have ordered a digital inclinometer to measure the camshaft position to double check my double check. I have been battling this misfire for a full 3 days and I'm close to a sense of humour bypass.

Other things I have done included pulling the fuel rail. this should be an easy enough operation but not on an engine where the rail hasn't been touched in 14 years. What a struggle. I had to use a lot of force, the rail came out but left the injectors still in their ports. I had to use mole grips and more brute force to pull the injectors. I cleaned them up with carb cleaner, re-attached them to the rail and applied 12v to each injector, they all work. I filled the rail with carb cleaner and pressurised it then individually cycled each injector. I repeated the process a couple of times then used just compressed air. I then put the injectors back in. Even after all of this, the engine still misfires at idle but not when revved which is very strange so I can't decide if this is an ignition problem, an injection issue or a failing ecu.

I am happy the coils and plugs are good - the plugs are new and swapping coils makes no difference. I bought two cheap coils to do a substitution test and had the same result. Checking injectors is not something I know how to do....maybe a noid light could do the trick. I'll have a think about that.

I also think I will deal with the alternator and do the cam sensors then see what happens. If anybody has any thoughts or pointers for things to check I would be grateful. I am wondering if I should do the crank sensor as well, but there is no evidence to say it needs it, just a funny feeling if you know what I mean. I will come back with an update in a few days but I have to say this car is testing my patience and that's saying something.
 
#2 ·
Sooooooo, it's nearly time for another assault on the 308, it's a 2010 1.6 vti (5FW).

The first thing I need to do is get a working alternator on it, the battery isn't enough to keep it alive long enough to do any meaningful checking/testing and like all modern cars the 308 is sensitive to electrical supply. It cracks me up when the battery gets to the point of no return and all the warning lights come on, the wipers move on their own and all sorts - the car is possessed!

Assuming the used alternator I'm picking up will work I really want to understand how the injection and lambda control circuits interact with ignition. My thinking is that I need to isolate if there is an ignition misfire causing injection problems or if it is the other way around. I also need to see the engine running long enough to see what the O2 sensors are doing.

I'm not very familiar with the systems on the 308 and I have seen suggestions that after a timing chain change, the car needs to be driven but I'll have to ponder this. Now, a question for those who know, does the ECU memory keep adaptions like long term fuel trim, ignition settings etc even when the battery is disconnected? Then if so, is there a way to reset adaptions without a high level diagnostic reader? I have a basic Autel AL519 that can clear most engine fault codes but it doesn't have an option for more in depth resets. I'd rather not have to send it to a stealer just for a simple clear down of the ECU.

Assuming I can gather some useful live data my intended direction of travel is to first change out the cam position sensors - I'm not convinced this is the underlying cause of the misfire but it is quick and relatively cheap. I have looked at the dephaser solonoids, they are clean and working when 12v applied direct but as I'm not seeing valve timing issues I doubt there is a problem with cam timing or the variable valve timing and lift controls, although I do have a pair of dephasers on standby.

What I wonder about is whether or not a failing crank sensor could be an issue? Would this normally cause a specific fault code to be logged in the ecu? I suspect it would as it would interfere with both ignition and injection timing which are kind of mission critical. If not, I suppose it could easily explain a P1336 type fault code.

Assuming the cam sensors make no difference and I already know it is not the plugs or coils after swapping them around and substitution testing that would tend to leave fuel injectors and/or fuel supply together with the O2 sensors. I should be able to see O2 on live data so an easy check there, but injectors and fuel supply might need a bit more faffing about. I want to check pressure in the fuel rail, not sure what figure I should see but would have thought at least 2 or 3 bar could somebody confirm what sort of value to expect, please. Then I'll need to come up with some way of doing an injector test, the pressurised air check doesn't show the spray pattern but I am happy there are no leaking injectors.

Anyway, I'll update in a couple of days when I've had at it but in the meantime, if anyone can answer my questions to help the diagnostic checking I'd greatly appreciate it.

Cheers.
 
#4 ·
I have put the used alternator on and it works!! Car is happier seeing some voltage but sadly the misfires continue, same codes, P1336, P1337 and P1338. I swapped the plugs and coils around again, just in case but 100% it is not a coil or plug problem.

Just for kicks I thought I would do a compression test; I was quietly confident because when I did the valve stem seals I did a leak down check to be happy I could pressurise the cylinders so I didn't drop valves out of the head which would have been a whole other world of pain.

Anyway, I sparked it up, initially the engine settled to a smooth idle but as before within a few seconds, misfire and rough running. I took a brave pill and backed it off my ramp and then drove it back on. There was no power, had to give it lots of revs and slip the clutch to get back on the ramp. I pulled out my compression gauge then pulled the plugs and after messing about trying to find the right adapter proceeded to test.

Pot number 1 (yes at the gearbox end!), crank with WOT for a count of 10. Strong smell of fuel which at least says juice is being squirted in somewhere and I see a pressure of 185psi which looks good to me.

I see essentially the same results for the other 3 cylinders. Pot 3 was slightly lower at 180psi but for a motor with 202k miles on it, I think the consistent results are very good. I'm happy there isn't a ring or head gasket problem and it appears there isn't a valve problem either especially on the back of the leak down test.

So far, I have satisfied myself there isn't a mechanical problem. Cam timing is good, compressions are good and even across all 4 pots, coils and plugs are fine, alternator is good. According to my OBD scanner, the O2 sensors are working. I have replaced one of the cam sensors, I will do the other one when the replacement arrives, hopefully later today but I won't hold my breath - I'm not convinced the cam sensors are an issue but it's one more thing to have discounted as a potential cause. I could do a smoke test on the inlet, I have a smoke tester and at this point I don't have anything to lose, rough running can easily be an inlet or vacuum leak somewhere, so maybe I'll do that too.

I am also minded to pull the injectors, and see what the spray patterns look like if i can find a suitable assistant. Other than that, I can only think I need to look at wiring. I might pull the ecu to see if the plug is corroded. I did think about maybe replacing the crank sensor but if this was the root cause I would expect different codes.... but I've been wrong before.
 
#5 ·
This irritating misfire continues to test my patience.

I pulled the cover of the box that hides the ECU and pull the plugs. No corrosion on any of the pins, so nothing to see here. Hey ho, it was worth a shot, I know that for example, on a Land Rover Discovery 3, corrosion of the pins on the transfer case ecu causes absolute havoc. Anyway, I reconnect it all and put the lid back on.

The other cam sensor arrived, so did a fuel pressure gauge. I thought, well no time like the present. I first fired up my smoke tester, shoved it in to the throttle body and waited, shining a very bright torch all around the inlet manifold I saw nothing. I waited a bit longer, there was the slightest wisp of smoke off the vacuum pump connector. I pulled the breather off the cam cover on the right hand side (UK drivers side), plenty smoke in there which is quite normal. So negative smoke test - no inlet/vacuum leak.

Next I looked at this fuel pressure gauge - it was ÂŁ20.00, a bit of a waste of time for most folks - the schrader valve on the fule rail is a standard tyre sized one. The pressure gauge uses a larger size and doesn't fit and nor do any of the adapters it comes with; it is fair to say I was suitably unimpressed but not being one to just give up I butchered an old tyre infaltor that hadn't been used in at least 10 years or more. My bodge in place I attached the gauge to the fuel rail, reconnected the battery and flicked the ignition on. The pump runs, the gauge climbs I see 3 bar with the pump on with a slow decay after pressurisation. So the rail is getting good pressure.

I quickly swap out the cam sensor. I deliberate, should I spark it up and see what happens? Well, in for a penny and all that. Key in, ignition on..........

Flick the key, the starter kicks it over, it catches revs up a bit then settles down. No MIL, no depollution message, idle feels pretty good. Was that it? The other cam sensor? Well, let's not get carried away. I move a few things and latch the bonnet, back it off the ramp and still no warnings. I'm feeling good, nearly smug.

I drive back up to the ramp, still good. I back down again then do a short test drive, just up the lane which is only a couple of hundred metres. I give some juice, it revs and pulls better than it has in a long time. I'm still not convinced, I turn it around, check no traffic. Redline 1 & 2 and in to third, it flies, no misfires, no warnings it looks good, I'm feeling smug!

I turn around and do the same which is slightly up hill. Red line 1, red line 2, I mis-select my gear and drop in to 5th, but it still pulls. I do this a couple more times then I paused at the top of the lane briefly to chat with a neighbour, I feel the idle drop, I blip it still no warnings. We chat for a few minutes but not more than 5. I give it another bootful back home, it pulls hard like before and I turn in to the driveway, and bleep bleep, MIL on, fans on, depollution fault. I can believe it, how can it have been performing just moments ago and now back to square one!

So....... let's recap. The issue is misfire and codes P1336, P1336 and P1338. I have replaced the timing chain, it was shot as was the chain tensioner. I have set and checked the cam timing, it is correct. The dephaser solenoids are good. The coils and plugs are good. The cam sensors are new and are working. The O2 sensors are working. Based on the test run, the injectors obviously work and I know there is good pressure at the fuel rail. The dephasers are clearly working and have not been put on the wrong cam shaft or other daft school boy error.

All this means there isn't much left to check or test or replace. Crank sensor is really the only obvious choice but again, having just been able to rag the nuts off it, there is no obvious cause.... or solution for that matter. I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome.
 
#6 ·
Good morning world, it's another day!

I have ordered a crank sensor, it's not expensive and easy to change, although I have to admit I do have the advantage of a 4 post lift in the barn.

I have been trying to figure out what else might account for this irritating misfire. I have quite a lot of experience of the frustrations of owning a V8 Range Rover, I had a 1991 3.9 Vogue SE for nigh on 16 years. No OBD, an old style distributor ignition system and Lucas electrics - those who know will understand!

Anyway, I have seen my share of misfires and rough running. Typical causes would be ignition amplifier failing when hot, failing ignition coil, rotor arm and dizzy cap. The trick was always to decide if a misfire was caused by the ignition system or the injection system. They were separate and only had the ignition coil in common. Now I know the 1.6VTI doesn't have an old style ignition system but the principles are the same, there needs to be a spark in the right place at the right time. The same is true for injecting fuel. We all know suck, squeeze, bang, blow. This basic principle doesn't change.

Thinking about this current issue I think I am beginning to see what's what. The injection and ignition are both ECU controlled. It relies on inputs to decide when to fire injectors and spark plugs. Both are sequential. How are they timed? As far as I can see, it is a combination of crank sensor, says where the pistons are and cam sensors which say where the valves are. A discrepancy in any of these inputs would result in a misfire. The complicating factor could be the emissions control which is fed by the O2 sensors. If the values from the O2 sensors is out of spec, the ECU will modify injector pulse to correct the fuelling, this in turn might lead to a lean misfire. BUT a lean misfire can also be caused by inlet or vacuum leaks..... OR perhaps, maybe a misbehaving MAF or MAP sensor telling the ECU there is more (or less) air than there really is. This brings me back to the venerable old Rangie. When I first bought it, it wouldn't run right, misfiring and spluttering. I discovered, by accident, that if I unplugged the MAF sensor, it would default to a limp home fuel map and as long as you drove it like you stole it, it went very well, but 6mpg was a bit much. The issue for that was an ecu fault - it wasn't reading the MAF.

So I wonder if I have been looking in the wrong place for the source of my misfire. Maybe there is nothing wrong with the crank sensor and the gremlin is hiding on the inlet/throttle side of the engine management. I will see what happens after I fit a new crank sensor so I'll leave it there for now.

Cheers.
 
#7 ·
Well.......






New crank sensor arrived so I threw it on, reconnected the battery and turned the key. It fired up no problem, settled to idle then I blipped the throttle, it revved fine but then when it returned to idle on comes the MIL, then depollution and fan spins up so that definitely didn't fix it.

So what next? I notice there is a conspicuous absence of any input from anybody else - does that mean nobody has any ideas?

I have done a bit more digging and I think the issue is the way the car logs DTC's. The codes generated are P1336, P1337 and P1338 all of which are defined as Combustion misfiring (impact on catalytic converter). P1336 is a general misfire code, 1337 and 1338 relate to cylinders 1 and 2. BUT...... I am not sure the codes point to the right path to trouble shoot.

based on what I have done so far, I believe this is actually an O2 sensor fault. I have researched the O2 sensors on this car and it appears to be the case the downstream sensor should be replaced at 100,000km (60k miles) and the upstream sensor at 250,000km (156k miles). The car has 202,900 miles on it (call it 325,000km). So I believe the O2 sensors could be not quite up to speed. They do both appear to scale but I wouldn't know what the normal readings should be so assumed just because they do change they are working. This could also be a pointer to the main dealers scan showing P0420 which is entirely logical if the O2 sensors, or perhaps more correctly the AFR sensors, are failing.

Whilst pondering the DTC's I noted the code reader showed, for example, P1337 $7E8 PEUGEOT. I did a quick Google of $7E8 - says O2 sensor, no mention of misfire. It does reference inlet or vacuum leak but I have smoke tested the inlet and completed leak down and compression tests so I am drawn to O2 sensors especially given the mileage and that as far as I know, the O2 sensors are, like everything else I have changed, original.

So I can only conclude my next port of call is to replace the well overdue O2 sensors.
 
#8 ·
What can I say...... that didn't work either! I am starting to think it is a conspiracy.

So far, I have replaced timing chain, tensioner and bottom sprocket, all valve guide seals, spark plugs, both cam sensors and the crank sensor. I have swapped the ignition coil packs around and I have just done the same with the fuel injectors. I have replaced both O2 sensors and I'm still seeing anti-pollution warning and MIL with a noticeable misfire. Still the same error codes, P1336, P1337 and P1338.

This is not making sense and there's not really much else to test or replace. I am now in the realms of "if, but and maybe". I have never had so much grief to address a misfire. Nothing makes sense at this point in time. My thoughts turn to the catalytic converter itself. The upstream O2 sensor was very sooty and I wonder if the problem is the cat???? As a desperate measure, I managed to dig out the old one that I replaced last year, I know it might not be the answer but my logic is this:

IF this irritating problem is cat failure because of leaky valve stem seals causing too much oil to be burned, and it is entirely possible, then the old cat might be in better shape so I have nothing to lose in trying. If nothing changes, the dilemma is do I replace the cat? If I do and still the problem persists I think the only other possibility is a malfunctioning ECU.

What annoys me is that I first swapped injector 1 with injector 3 and this caused codes P1336 and P1337 to go away. Thinking I might be on to something here I swapped injector 2 with injector 4 and then all 3 codes returned. I messed about a bit, clearing codes, wiggling connectors and so on but no difference. After yet another clearance of codes I decided to try moving the car, so far it has been firmly sat on the lift. I spark it up and immediately reverse it out, no warnings, smooth idle. I run up and down the driveway a couple of times and still no warnings. Then, for no reason the MIL flashes, fan comes on and anti-pollution, the codes - P1336, P1337 and P1338. Oh and yes $7E8 is still showing too. It just doesn't make sense. I would add there is no P0420 which says it is not the catalytic converter itself which might point at an ECU fault. If the ecu can't see or read any one of the input sensors, it might throw the codes I currently see and can't resolve despite having replaced the primary input sensors.

Does anybody have any suggestions what else I can investigate....please.
 
#9 ·
Still no takers? Can't anybody shed any light on this?

Hey ho.

I did put the old catalytic converter back on the car - it makes no difference.
It starts fine but within a couple of minutes the faults appear. I watched the lambda value, it is good at start up after clearing the codes, fluctuating slightly from about 0.997 to say 1.001, then when the MIL comes on lambda jumps up to 1.5, 1.6 and fluctuates up and down. Once the O2 sensors show lambda out of range the ecu sets a fault and goes in to limp mode (I assume).

I have done a lot of reading about about Peugeot fault codes and it does seem the cars are plagued with issues that nobody can fix. I did find some detail about the three codes I am seeing on the French Car Forum and noted the symptoms and conditions for the codes to set are the same:

  • Engine management ECU in main triggering phase
  • Engine speed above 500 rpm and below a threshold defined in the engine ECU
  • Torque less than a threshold defined in the engine ECU
  • The crankshaft and the camshaft are synchronised

Conditions for Fault to clear: Stop the engine and restart, in order to re-inject into the cylinders cut off following the detection of ignition misfirings
Downgrade Modes whilst Fault is active:
Deactivation of the richness regulation
Deactivation of the canister purge function
Cutting of cylinders if fault persistent

This explains a great deal and reassures me that the problem, the underlying fault, is NOT mechanical. The deactivation of richness regulation and cutting cylinders are, I suspect symptoms and not causes of whatever the actual problem is, it also explains why I see the lambda value jump - that is the point the ECU turns off Lambda control.

The details go on to include the suspect areas:

Electrical harness
Fuel level
Sparking plugs
Setting the timing
Engine ECU

Out of these possibilities I know it's not the timing, it's not the plugs or coils, the car has fuel. That leaves the wiring harness and the ECU.

I have looked at the wiring harness but I'm not convinced just looking at it is enough. I have no idea how to go about testing the harness, I don't have any wiring diagrams to show which pins in which plugs do what and I definitely can't test the ECU.

As far as I can tell, in the absence of any identifiable issues mechanically or with the main sensors (because I have replaced them) the likely cause of the mystery misfires is the ECU itself.

I understand on cars with the HPFP misfires do happen because the pump is failing but this car doesn't have the high pressure pump, just the electric one in the tank. I might pop it out just to check the pickup/strainer is clean and clear and maybe do another fuel pressure check.

Anyway, that's about all I can say on this one. No conclusive answer I am afraid and for those struggling with the same persistent error codes, you'll have to get in to it and eliminate the possible causes one by one. Assuming you don't have timing issues and leaky valve stem seals, plugs and coils are easy to swap and check, cam sensors are easy to change and not expensive, the same is true for the crank sensor. The O2 sensors are quite expensive. One thing is for sure and that is you can't hunt down running issues without an OBD code reader, if you don't have one, get one - they're not that expensive in the scheme of things and I know some will say you have to have the Citroen/Peugeot diagnostic software etc but I'm not convinced - the more expensive code readers are pretty good and there will be manufacturer specific readers out there. I have one for my Land Rover and there is very little it can't do, I can alter the CCF, turn on or off certain features, I can read all ecus and run test cycles on various sensors, switches and motors. Mind you, that reader was a few hundred pounds BUT, that sort of reader will pay for itself very quickly when you consider a main dealer will charge ÂŁ125.00 + VAT just to plug your car in.

Happy motoring!
 
#10 ·
Hello again!

I think the end is drawing near. I have replaced the crank sensor, both cam sensors, checked the vanos solenoids, replaced the timing chain and tensioner, replaced the valve stem seals, I have verified the cam timing is correct. I have carried out compression and leak down tests which don't indicate any possible mechanical problems. I have replaced both O2 sensors, I have replaced all the spark plugs and I have swapped the coils and fuel injectors around and still there is a misfire and error codes P1336, P1337 and P1338.

I sent the ecu away for testing, no faults found but knowing that isn't always reliable I had the ECU reconditioned by having all the common failure components replaced. I have just put the reconditioned ECU back in, the car fired up, no problems but then as before after a minute or two the MIL comes on, de-pollution message, major misfire, unstable idle and cooling fan on full.

So I can't find the cause of the problem and on the basis it is only an old pug I think it will have to be scrapped unless of course somebody on this forum can make any useful suggestions that will maybe sort the problem out or at lest give the car a last chance before it sees the crusher!
 
#11 ·
I have seen countless threads relating to misfire codes but few seem to offer any answers so I hope this one will reach a conclusion. I'll apologise now this could be a long post!

The car is a 2010 308 1.6 VTI. It is the 5FW engine with the double cam dephasers. It has done almost 203,000 miles and never had a timing chain!!!! The car has variously thrown depollution faults, I replaced the catalytic converter 10 months ago although I have to admit it was a cheap one, about ÂŁ120.00 IIRC.

Anyway, the car went to a main dealer for service, yes, my partner takes it to a main dealer for servicing - this isn't as crazy as you might think BUT despite what they charge for "diagnostics" they don't seem to know much about basic spannering.

The car was collected and died on the way home - total electrical mayhem. Dead battery......mmmmmmmmm. Towed it home, applied jump leads got it fired up. You name it the warnings were on; power steering, ABS, MIL, Depollution etc. Checked for charge - the alternator is dead. I must say, pretty impressed it managed over 200k, looked at brushes - nothing left. Slip rings well worn but I'll stick some brushes on it for now (when they arrive) to get it going.

So thing number 1, check battery and charging. Weak electricals will cause havoc.

I was aware the car was puffing a bit of blue smoke and had been for some time. I was thinking rings or valve stem seals, either way, burning oil would likely explain depollution faults which could in turn lead to misfiring. Did lots of reading - the engine is apparently notorious for valve stem seals but also various other maladies, some minor, some terminal. The service sheet from the dealer was suggesting the catalytic converter was on the way out because they recorded a P0420 code. I wasn't convinced but it was clear the car won't pass an emissions test come MOT in July.

The dilemma is the car is not worth much but the cost of fixing it is probably more than it is worth but still cheaper than buying in to another car. After all, it has just had new rear pads and discs and oil service. I said to the other half, I'll look in to it and see what I can find.

I pulled the plugs - they were properly grim. Clearly main dealers don't know how to remove plugs to give them a visual check. They were black and sooted up and the plug gaps were 1mm+. I was amazed it ran at all. I rememebered from when I changed the catalytic converter there was heavy soot deposits on ports 1 and 2, this would have been from leaky valve stem seals, I decided the best thing to do would be to replace the valve stem seals and at the same time assess the timing chain and tensioner. While I was diving in I thought it might be useful to do a leak test on the cylinders, after all, I would need to rely on air pressure to hold the valves closed when doing the stem seals. All pots were good, only a gentle blow by on the rings (engine cold), no valve losses and nothing to indicate head gasket problems.

I have replaced the valve stem seals, that actually wasn't a bad job, the collets are a bit small and fiddly and the lower part of the windscreen gets in the way of the tools - yes I did manage to crack the bottom of the screen!!!!!

This is where the fun starts. The timing chain tensioner was very loose and probably 50% backed out of its port. The main dealer had said the tensioner was leaking oil but obviously couldn't be bothered to see if it was loose. That was annoying. I pulled the tensioner out - in two pieces! No going back now. I used the "pre-tensioning tool" to measure the deflection of the chain; let's just say it was a bit out of tolerance. I am truly impressed that even with a timing chain this worn, it didn't sound like a bag of nails and mostly ran quite well, looked at the chain guides and actually not bad at all.

I replaced the timing chain, guides, tensioner and bottom sprocket. I was happy the dephasers were OK. I put it all back together, timed the cams, charged the battery and went for a start. It fired up alright but there was the mother of all misfires at idle and of course the attendant engine light and message of doom. The misfire appeared to be less noticeable with some revs - odd I thought. I read fault codes using a generic Autel OBD scanner. Misfires and a timing issue are logged.

"That's odd" I thought. Checked ignition coils by swapping them around but it was clear pots 1 and 2 weren't doing anything. I put the new plugs in - no change.

I was concerned the cam timing might be out. So..... deep breath, cam cover off and go back in. Yes, looks like the inlet cam was just a little out, so I reset it. I made sure all the pistons were level, measuring their position with a 300mm vernier - a standard 150mm vernier is not long enough BTW. I adjust the dephasers, lucky I had an extra pair of bolts (more by luck than judgement). The timing tools slip perfectly on to the cam shafts, I nip up the bolts turn it all over and re-check. All good, torque up the dephasers and put it all back together.

I fire it up again. Initially, everything was good, then within only 2 or 3 seconds, engine light on, misfire, depollution error message and that wave of disappointment washes over me. Harsh language ensued. Code reader plugged in shows P1336, P1337 and P1338. Interstingly, no P0420.

I have looked through reams of posts across numerous forums (or should that be fora?) and there is no apparent consensus as to root cause. I also observeed the scurge of many a forum of one post wonders saying "please help" and "urgent" but they never come back and close their thread by saying if they found a fix.... or not. A forum is there for help and moral support but you can only really benefit if you contribute.... I'll get off my soap box now.

Currently, I have reloaded the Peugeot Parts Cannon and await delivery of a pair of cam sensors, genuine Bosch off a certain website. It's a Hail Mary, but a cheaper initial option. I will also be picking up a used alternator so i can keep it running while I check codes and pull leads. I have re-checked cam timing, it is, as far as I can tell, spot on but I have ordered a digital inclinometer to measure the camshaft position to double check my double check. I have been battling this misfire for a full 3 days and I'm close to a sense of humour bypass.

Other things I have done included pulling the fuel rail. this should be an easy enough operation but not on an engine where the rail hasn't been touched in 14 years. What a struggle. I had to use a lot of force, the rail came out but left the injectors still in their ports. I had to use mole grips and more brute force to pull the injectors. I cleaned them up with carb cleaner, re-attached them to the rail and applied 12v to each injector, they all work. I filled the rail with carb cleaner and pressurised it then individually cycled each injector. I repeated the process a couple of times then used just compressed air. I then put the injectors back in. Even after all of this, the engine still misfires at idle but not when revved which is very strange so I can't decide if this is an ignition problem, an injection issue or a failing ecu.

I am happy the coils and plugs are good - the plugs are new and swapping coils makes no difference. I bought two cheap coils to do a substitution test and had the same result. Checking injectors is not something I know how to do....maybe a noid light could do the trick. I'll have a think about that.

I also think I will deal with the alternator and do the cam sensors then see what happens. If anybody has any thoughts or pointers for things to check I would be grateful. I am wondering if I should do the crank sensor as well, but there is no evidence to say it needs it, just a funny feeling if you know what I mean. I will come back with an update in a few days but I have to say this car is testing my patience and that's saying something.
I had almost the same issue and fault codes. Turned out to be the high pressure fuel pump! I replaced it myself (Peugeot garage wanted ÂŁ1100) for less than ÂŁ400. My 207cc GT THP150 runs like a dream
 
#13 ·
ClassicKev, even if you have the problems you described and your writing i soo amusing and have given me a number of laughs, many thanks.
I´m sorry that I can not be of any help though.

I don´t have the same problem as you but a bit similar with the code P1338 on my 207cc, have a look under BoE.

Again many thanks and the best of luck with both the car and your amazing calm.
 
#14 ·
PEUGEOT 308 1.6 VTi, EP6 (5FW) 2007 - 2010

Not seen this one must have missed it, till today.
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DTC P1336 Random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
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DTC P1337 Cylinder 1 misfire detected
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DTC P1338 Cylinder 2 misfire detected
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Not sure where you are at with this today, there can be mechanical causes for these errors as well.
 
#15 ·
Thank you BoE and RedSector, I appreciate the input.

Unfortunately, there is nothing left for me to check/change/disconnect. I suspect the underlying issue may be a wiring problem which would probably be next to impossible to identify and I'm not sure I am motivated enough to want to start continuity testing the engine loom.

Out of the diagnostic checks from RedSector, it can be seen there is some commonality between the misfire codes. I have eliminated cam sensors, crank sensor, injectors and ignition coils... and spark plugs. So that takes out the root causes of cylinder misfires.

P1336 is a bit more troublesome. The list shows 12 potential causes, I have either replaced or otherwise checked all of them perhaps with only one exception - the knock sensor. That said, I believe if the knock sensor is faulty, there would be an additional fault code pointing to the knock sensor. I swapped the positions of all ignition coils and the injectors to eliminate these as potential causes but it made no difference. I checked the fuel pressure at the rail and it was within spec.

In so far as mechanical issues, there aren't any I am aware of. The mechanical timing of the engine is 100%, I double checked it after replacing the valve stem seals, timing chain, chain guides, chain tensioner and bottom sprocket. Compression on each cylinder is good. Leak down testing showed no excessive blow by/leakage. I smoke tested the inlet side to eliminate inlet/vacuum leaks, I tried disconnecting the throttle body too - at least that showed different fault codes but showed the ecu was seeing the throttle body etc.

So I am sure you can understand I have invested way too much time and money in to this so the car is just sitting there slowly decaying which in some ways is a shame, it is actually not a bad car, the engine is mechanically fit, cosmetically it is fair and it had just been serviced so the rear discs and pads are new, I have put many new parts on it within the last 12 -18 months but the harsh reality is, there is no value in a 14 year old 308 Sport with 203k on the clock. My partner has listed the car for sale as spares or repair in an attempt to claw back some of the costs but if nobody wants/needs a project or parts car, it will go to the scrap yard.

Cheers.
 
#19 ·
Thanks RedSector, I did contemplate testing the harness but the reality is the pins on the plugs to the ecu are so close together and small that I don't have anything to be able to back probe with and for some components an oscilloscope is a better tool but I don't have one of those nor know how to use one!

The other thing is that if a particular component has failed or the wiring is damaged, I would expect to see very specific errors, the generic misfire codes are not helpful and it is possible any underlying problem is unrelated to those sensors/components I have already replaced.

I suppose my frustration is that this can't be the first or only time somebody has seen these issues so why can't I find some information about likely causes? I know troubleshooting is a test of patience, I am not exactly a novice and as you may have gathered, I have systematically gone through the most likely causes. I do happen to have a full list of pin outs for the ecu with details of ECM pin, signal in or out, condition (eg ign on etc) typical values, oscilloscope settings and wave forms. I have seen a wiring diagram for the engine harness but I am just not convinced I have the right tools (or skill/experience) to check the wiring and I really don't want to waste a good amount of time opening the loom to trace individual wires.

I do greatly appreciate you taking time to consider this thread but regrettably, if there isn't a known path to tread, I have invested too much time and money chasing the ghost in the machine and I have next to no appetite to go again. If it was a case of try X,Y or Z, or perhaps, check the earth here, here or here, I might be tempted but testing the engine harness has no attraction.

Cheers!
 
#20 ·
I did contemplate testing the harness but the reality is the pins on the plugs to the ecu are so close together and small that I don't have anything to be able to back probe with and for some components an oscilloscope is a better tool but I don't have one of those nor know how to use one!
You only need a decent automotive multimeter (not an oscilloscope) and to back probe use a suitable pin (or unwind a paper clip) or check the probes they often have cover on them and much longer (decent automotive ones). Most of the testing is done with ECU hooked up.

I do greatly appreciate you taking time to consider this thread but regrettably, if there isn't a known path to tread, I have invested too much time and money chasing the ghost in the machine and I have next to no appetite to go again.
I understand.
 
#22 ·
I am facing the same issue with my Peugeot 308 T9. Error codes P1336, P1337, P1338, and P2291 keep appearing. I have already replaced the high-pressure pump, fuel pump, spark plugs set, coil packs set, charcoal canister, and performed a fuel injector service. Compression and vacuum leak tests also came back fine, but the faults are still present.
 
#23 ·
Peugeot 308-2009 EP6 engine
I have related problem but only P1340. It happens when engine is warm and especially when returning to idle after driving a while. Done timing chain dephaser solenoids, camchaft sensors, some injectors, spark plugs some coils and also blocked the line to the charcoil canister.
It always shuts down cyl 4 (opposite to gearbox), done by checking signal to coil 4, and sometimes it´s hard to erase the faultcode. It always start and runs well as long as there is no faultcode.

I´m really bothered that P1340 is described as misfire OR Camshaft Position Sensor B Circuit Malfunction OR camshaft correlation. I really would like to be sure of the desription of P1340 as it could help a lot for the troubleshooting. As for now I´m only guessing when replacing parts. Does anyone have experience of what P1340 really is?

2 major concerns as for now: Something wrong in cyl 4 (valves, valveseats which has not shown on compression tests) or oil seal on exhaust cam (generates low oil pressure on exhaust dephaser). Could even be a general low oil pressure when warm, i think i have to check this in a near future.
 
#25 ·
The car runs great as long as there's no 1340 faultcode. It takes at least 18km of driving from cold before the fault code is set. I think its really strange that the name of 1340 could have at least 2 different names. Ive tested with 2 different faultcode reader and got camshaft position sensor and misfire. How is it possible to know where the problem is as you dont know where to start?

I did one more thing and the nut in valve cover for exhaust camshaft sensor was sticking up from the plane where the sensor alignes, this cause the sensor to rock somewhat, not really seated. i drilled the top part of the nut app 0,5mm so the sensor is properly seated. Could it be that the distance between sensor tip and camshaft is a bit too big? Not sure what the distance should be at?
 
#26 ·
@Gunnar308 Currently working on same issue on my 308 with 1.6L EP6 VTI engine

Typically drives for 20 to 30 mins before Cyl 4 (timing chain end) then faults with P1340 / P0304 accompanied with fan full blast and proper misfire on Cyl 4.... by the injector being disabled. That's an ECU protection mechanism for the cat I believe. I can observe that on my Lexia full chip rev c diagnostics interface and running the personalised parameters scan - the injector pulse time drops to 0ms.

P1340 & P0304 is definitely cylinder 4 misfire as reported by PSA Diagbox.

I've changed pretty much everything to tackle it so far, new timing chain, new injector, new coil, new sparks, but when it came to the VVT solenoids I only tried replacing the intake solenoid, nor did I bother swapping them.

Today, I tried just disconnecting the exhaust VVT solenoid as it was the only thing I hadn't really played with yet, and, surprisingly it now runs a lot better. More so, I took it for an hour drive and no issues with misfiring. Anyway the delphi sicma connector oem part 211PC022S0149 on my exhaust VVT solenoid loom end had become so brittle as to disintegrate in the solenoid connector due to being perished by a small oil leak from the valve cover (which I fixed when I redid the timing with new gaskets), so I'll be leaving it disconnected whilst I await a replacement plug.

So try disconnecting yours to see if you have an improvement? (tip: tie the loom end back away from the exhaust heat shield).

Of course it registers an open circuit fault for the exhaust solenoid, but will resume troubleshooting with a focus just on the exhaust VVT and its electrical connection replacement plugs arrive.

I enjoyed reading ClassicKev's posts, and can sympathise with him, mirrors my own experience with this engine. Have had the head off of mine before to do valve stem seals etc, back in 2017. Dropped the sump and replaced all the piston rings at the time as it was only a little bit extra work. Was heavy with oil smoke before, at only 40k miles! Quite a nightmare of an engine. I installed an oil catch can tank on the breather to try and spare all that soot going straight back into the ports, and drain a lot from it quite frequently. Mostly free of major major issues until now at 98k miles, but here we go again.
 
#29 ·
@RedSector Tensioner springs? Are these valve springs? Or the coiled springs within the vanos camshaft dephaser sprockets? I replaced the latter with new as part of new timing kit.

There are of course plenty of those electronically actuated lever style springs on top of the intake camshaft.... which look pretty easy to get to. Please do post a link if you find it.