You NEED live data readings replacing stuff like you have rarely works

You CANNOT test for fuel pressure by opening a union as an open union will be seen by the ecu as a leak and it shuts down.

Live data
cranking speed 250rpm
cam and crank sync yes
fuel pressure 298 bar

These are all the engine needs to see if it sees these while cranking it should start.

Is the key still recognised (beep test)

 

Thanks for reply , had to wait for someone who could do a live data reading . While i was waiting i have checked the wiring from the ecu to all sensors and across to the fusebox , have stripped and cleaned all the connectors on the fusebox .

The car beeps if the key is left in the ignition and the door is opened .

This was not a peugeot tool , it was a snap on machine , this is what it came up with .

P 0100 flow sensor signal
P 0230 fuel pump in tank supply
P 0380 pre heating relay circuit
P 0180 fuel temp signal
P 1112 fuel rail pressure
P 0190 fuel pressure signal
P 1614 rail pressure sensor sensor supply fault . supply outside tolerance.

( i know the descriptions aren't exactly what the peugeot list of these faults says )

It also read between 225 and 257 cranking RPM
1081 bar rail pressure ( removed sensor from rail but left it plugged in , it still read 1081 bar ! )
re fitted old sensor , read 0 off car and 300 when cranked ( but doesn't appear to be any fuel in the common rail )
didn't do a cam / crank synch as an option , but he said something would have indicated a fault if they weren't right . Have re checked the timing when refitting original pump .

Rebuilt the high pressure pump , but the one way valve on the inlet side ( supply from filter ) doesn't work , you blow or suck through it . Have put pump back on and fitted a one way valve in the pipe supplying the high pressure pump and it still won't start .

Can the fuel pressure regulator on the back of the pump cut off the fuel going into the rail entirely ? or does it just vary the pressure ?

As a matter of interest , when the original pump was on the bench i refitted the regulator from the second hand pump on , so not to lose the bolts or get any dirt in the pump . When i turned the spindle about 1/2 a turn the fuel squirted out of the union which supplies the rail !

Many thanks , regards Al

 

Your fault codes are all saying to me your ecu is not being powered up or you have a common earth issue for all the items listed

300 bar is correct cranking reading your cranking speed is high enough so it must be something purely wiring related stop swapping bits around you will just end up even more confused

Pumps rarely fail non starts are nearly always wiring issues

Pump just pumps the regulator always allows fuel through

ECU needs to see the signals i mentioned earlier if it sees them it allows the injectors to open if it does not it will not open injectors 1 of your signals for the 3 things mentioned is missing

cam sync can only be checked with live data it does NOT throw a fault code

 

Moved to 406 forum.

 

Thanks again for your reply . I did check the earths from the ECU . Pins 33 , 49 , 51 and 53 on the ECU plug all have continuity to the earth point on behind r/h strut . Also getting 12v feed on 1 , 29 , 69 and 87 . Also wires from multi function relay to ECU plug have continuity , and glow plug relay , inertia switch also relative earths or power to MAP , rail sensor , cam and crank sensors to the ECU or the relative part they are connected to .

What i don't understand is why there doesn't seem to be any fuel coming out of the high pressure pump to the fuel rail . I've retested that the low pressure pump supplies the fuel right up to where it enters the high pressure pump and if the regulator always allows some fuel to pass through - why isn't something coming out of the pump .

Am i correct in thinking that if the ECU sees something out of it's parameters that it stops the injectors from firing ? So the fuel rail should have filled anyway ?

The mechanic who came round with the machine for the live data , said that some Fords are very difficult to start even if you have only changed the filter . He tried undoing the union at the injector while cranking to see if air or fuel came out - neither did . I know the 406 HDi is a self bleed system - would that still self bleed if the fuel rail is empty ? If the rail is empty would the pump compress the air enough to give a reading during the live data test ?

Once again , many thanks for taking the time to reply . regards Al

 

You CANNOT open any high pressure pipe and test for fuel the ecu will not allow fuel to flow if there is an open pipe as it sees no pressure so thinks there is a leak at best you will get a dribble its not a good test.

If those fault codes are still active then thats where you problem is not fuel get some carb cleaner or similar and spray it into intake while cranking the engine should fire if it does then something is stopping the fuel or sensors are not getting/giving the required signals

 

Thanks again . How does the ECU stop the fuel flowing ? does it shut off the low pressure pump ?

I can't remember if the codes are still active or if they were cleared , i will have to try to get them checked again .

I'll try it on easy start and see what happens .

 

Low pressure pump only runs if engine runs it primes with key on but stops if engine not started and only restarts when engine is running i believe the ecu will shut this down in leak conditions but the main control is the pressure regulator if it sees a leak it will dump any pressure back to the tank.

 

I went to edit that post , but you replied before i had a chance .

You can hear alot of fuel going back to the tank .

I was going to say that the code P 1614 about voltage , that was low but it was correct after i cleaned all the connectors and fuse box etc . That was fixed prior to reading , so i think that was not a live one now . But the description is different on a list of Peugeot codes i found , it list it as p1614 - loss of RIM serial data . ?

the P 0100 flow sensor signal - what or where is that sensor ?

 

Problem is reading faults with different equipment will give slightly different results planet is best also to fix these kind of things live data readings tend to be more helpful than codes

flow sensor might be reffering to airflow ! is it a 1 plug ECU

 

It just has one large 86 pin plug .

 

Actually thinking about it , there was a measurement for airflow during the live data test , 8 Kgh - he thought that was low .

 

Is that the MAP sensor in the intercooler pipe ? that connects to the throttle position indicator / No. 3 pin on the ECU and the rail pressure sensor .

 

Most of the sensors dont matter as far as starting goes map airflow egr circuit etc dont affect starting even the glowplugs DONT matter!

Most engine sensors have a common ground and live feeds though

 

OK , thanks again - not sure i'm any nearer to fixing it though .

 

Single plug cars have slightly different layout to newer cars but the problems are the same have you checked the wiring carefully at the rail sensor where it drops behind the starter this is a common problem point.

As i said earlier the engine only needs to see 3 inputs to enable starting all the other readings are refinement.

 

yes , it's got a section about a foot long from the plug on the sensor down to a yellow plug mounted on the plastic channel for the loom , have already checked this piece and from the yellow socket to the ECU or wherever else it went , i was hoping for a wiring fault , which is why i fully inspected the engine bay loom while i was waiting for the chap to come and do the live data . Two cans of switch cleaner and two rolls of insulation tape later , plus cable ties and no wiring faults found ( that's from the ECU plug right over to the fuse box and every wire to any sensor in between .

 

Unfortunately the main issues on these are wiring and without access to live data readings it is very hard to get to the culprit.

The wiring under the drivers side carpet can rot at the plug but this is usually accompanied by a non read key and the key symbol on the dash.

There are a couple of non start threads with info including wiring on them if you do some searches

 

OK , thanks - i'll read them and also see if i can get the live data read again .
Many thanks , regards Al

 

I've often seen the Launch device mentioned on forums - i thought they were some expensive Peugeot thing , didn't realise they were so cheap and readily available online . Do you know which one is right for this age of car ( year 2000 ) i looked at the spec on a Launch CReader 6 and it implied it was for post -2004 diesels , Also not sure what OBD is ? I don't want to spend alot more on this car , but it might be worth getting one of these so i can recheck it now we've put the re-con pump back on , so we can see what faults are still active , any advice appreciated . Al

 

Planet or diagbox is peugeots official diagnostic tool and they can be had for around £60 but your car will work better on planet as its quite old if you do get it do not do any updates it wont need them im using the version that came with my adapter and it reads 406s fine.

Launch can do most of what planet can do but launch peugeot section is a clone of planet and planet is a clone of the original tool so you find some things get lost each time.

 

Unfortunately , one of the things it doesn't do is read fuel pressure , so buying that one was a waste of time and money ( Launch CReader 4001 ).

Did recheck the stored codes and got P0380 , P0230 and P00CC , cleared codes and now have P0380 and P00CC .

RPM OK on live data .

Did go back and recheck the voltage to the low pressure pump because of the P0230 code . Has 12v on key on for a couple of seconds , but only has 10v on cranking .

Really fed up now , as looking at a temporary replacement for the car untill i can get a classic car on the road . This is the first time i've not been able to fix a car , have had ones that became un-economic to repair , but at least i knew what the fault was with them , Looks like this will be be scrapped which is a shame as it's such a good and economical car , makes me feel like a failure , although two other mechanics i know haven't solved it either .

 

Without being able to read live data properly its very hard to diagnose faults on these

P0380 is glow plug related and wont affect starting or running

P00CC is not a recognised code but seems to be fuel regulator related i recon you have no fuel pressure in the rail OR no fuel pressure reading going to the ECU

Those pump voltages sound ok to me as when cranking the starter draws all the power hence the voltage drop

 

i agree with the voltage drop , when cranking .
We know there's no pressure in the rail as i don't think it's getting any fuel . I did check the wires from the pressure sensor to the relevant pins on ECU plug or where ever they went ( haven't got list with me ) So i'm starting to think ECU .

 

Its NEVER the ecu thats a garage that cant fix its solution and its ALWAYS wrong