[Jean_Luc]

i was thinking how to release debris from strainer, without any engine disassembly.
blowing into oilfilter hole, made sense to me.

i think, debris wouldn´t be a big problem, if it would stay on bottom . and then remove it with oil service.
but it seems it floats around in oil pan...

Yes I understood but the oil pump will not let pass the air or not much otherwise that would mean that the pump has a very low efficiency and even if you manage to get an air flow, you get an inverse Venturi effect due to the shape of the oil pump strainer, the air flow will lose speed. The debris form generally a sticky amalgam. It might work if the strainer is 100% clogged with no leak at all but I'm not convinced.

 

[Brilec]

Rubber particles are not heavy enough to drop to the bottom of the sump, which is why they block the strainer.

 

[hpc3]

https://translate.google.com/transl...troen-club.cz/forum-tema/oil-pressure-fault-a-nasledne-engine-fault-c4-ii-95012

[/URL]
I drove the car (Citroen C4 II 2015, 1.2 81kw puretech) 90km / h and I slowed down the hill to 70 km / h, when the car beeped and something with oil appeared to me (I haven't had time for the whole announcement yet, because I just couldn't look at the display). My service was on, so I stopped and turned off the engine. I checked everything, including enough oil. So I started again and I drove about 20km without any problems. Then the next day I started the car and the message appeared to me only for a second and it didn't happen and disappeared without a beep, without a roasted service ... So I drove and stopped the car after about 6 km. After a few hours, I returned to the car. When I started, OIL OK didn't show up, but the car started and nothing showed up anywhere. While driving, but out of nowhere, the oil jumped out again and this time I saw the oil pressure fault + service on the display and finally right after that the engine fault and the engine started to jerk and a red STOP appeared. I drove to number two and the car jerked. When I didn't step on the gas, the car drove to the two normally without jerking. I finished and turned off the engine ... After a while, he checked the oil and was ok ... There was nothing to suggest anywhere in the engine compartment. So I started the car to drive about 1 km to the garage and the car reported only an engine fault, the yellow engine light was on, but otherwise nothing. Normally I drove without hesitation as if I were driving a classic ride. I bought the car recently and drove about 800 km with it without any problems. The oil and oil filter were changed 1500 km ago by the former owner. He used Divinol C2 0W30 ... Thanks for the advice. Otherwise, of course, the car will go for diagnostics and we will see ...
63000km
So I'll get back to you after a while. The car mechanic took off the oil pan and mess like a pig. So earlier predictions were correct. The mechanic did not have all the parts, so he ordered it and the car will be in maybe five days. Meanwhile, he cleaned the sieve of the brothel, the tub, put a new tub seal, and put the shingle back. Then he unzipped the engine cover and said the timing belt was about to die. So the set of wiring can be replaced and the oil that flowed from the side of the engine is said to be the seal that will be replaced. I hope that after everything is exchanged, one poem will work. It can be seen that the car shit, but fortunately he has me now and I will pamper him.
---------
~710€
so it seems people in my area are getting familiar with the symptoms and situation. 😅 (turbo common 65000km)
according to one person, his friend was changing the oil and filter twice in service.... but later oil pan removed and cleaned the strainer-this fixed the problems....
i thought engine flush might free the debris from mesh strainer (by making the oil thinner), but debris may stick to it anyway

 

[lewolved]

Isnt there any belts who can keep up with this engine without breaking into pieces for resoanable amount of time? How are other manufacturers dealing with small turbo engines? And if this is so problematic why PSA still uses this engine with it variants? Are they using customers as test subjects? I do not understand why this timing belt issue cant be fixed. Faulty engine design is a big issue I assume. Has there been any legal action take in EU to PSA or is it just small amount if cars affected?

 

[hpc3]

1,2tsi had chains years ago. around 40000km chain could be lenghtened and toothed wheels destroyed. 5 or so chain revision kits, but no luck....
much expensiver repairs; it may even jump a teeth! now vag runs belts.......
small lightweight engines have strong torsion vibrations, this is bad for chain.
the era of big heavy motors with lifetime chain, ended 20 years ago. (also old pre-chamber mechanical diesels are best at biofuels...very good at running fry oil )
also asians have their engines not without problems. honda 1,5 strong gasoline-oil dilution.

 

[lewolved]

Thank you for the answer @hpc3 ) To my understanding lspi issues and the timin belt issues are normal but still I assume we got to be more carerful I assume regarding service intervals do you think reducing them to 10k would be better for oil changes and inspections plus 20k for spark plugs?

 

[hpc3]

maybe somebody will find this useful.
during weekend i tried this spray, i was surprised i could feel behavior change. car has only 3y 36000km....
low rpm- low load driving improved. it was not 100% stable before. minor mileage improvement.

Motul 109615 Fuel Additive, Throttle Body Clean, 16.9 oz Aer

www.raceplumbing.net

 

[Brilec]

So there is a gauge tool to check the width of the timing belt.
So does anyone know what width is should be, because making a tool to check should be very simple.

 

[mara-]

There is a TSB probably on the service box which shows everything, but you'll need to pay to access it.

 

[Jean_Luc]

Hi,
I wrote the ref of the gauge in a previous post (VSE5094).
But I'm wondering if this tool is reliable enough.
This belt check is done from several years in Germany and it does not really prevent from belt failure.
Unfortunately, I don't know yet the maximum accepted belt width.

 

[hpc3]

this tool is stupid. reason why they made this- they wanted a simple pass/fail test.

it can be very challenging to make clear instructions for people who are visually checking some product parameters.
of course 100 people will have 100 different-subjective opinions.
therefore measuring a item properties with gauge is easier and more precise.
but in this belt example this tool is total failure and time waste.

oil drain hole is nearby the strainer, so checking it with endoscope could be possible.

i ordered some tiny endoscope from ebay, maybe it could be possible to see strainer through the dipstick hole. cheers to caradisiac.

 

[Vainamoinen]

They use that tool through oil filler hole. Just simple check only, maybe accected belt is so wide that it works ?

 

[Jean_Luc]

The problem is when the belt inflates too much, it is compressed into the guide of the crankshaft sprocket and starts to loss parts on its side. So the width measurement becomes quite random.

Concerning the observation of the strainer through the drain hole, I think it is not feasible because the strainer is near to the bottom and some oil remains but by doing an oil suction by the gauge pipe to remove residual oil and by passing the endoscope through the gauge pipe using a 45deg mirror, it might be possible to see the strainer.
On this picture, you can see the the gauge in orange it is aligned to the strainer.

 

[Jean_Luc]

i ordered some tiny endoscope from ebay, maybe it could be possible to see strainer through the dipstick hole. cheers to caradisiac.

Thanks to post your video if you manage to see something

 

[hpc3]

yes will do, lets see in march
according to this photo the oil pan is submerged in oil.
actual level may be few cm above the pan 😅

 

[bloody pugs]

I know nothing about this engine but is it really a belt running in oil and not a chain?

yes, just like back in 1954

 

[Brilec]

The problem is when the belt inflates too much, it is compressed into the guide of the crankshaft sprocket and starts to loss parts on its side. So the width measurement becomes quite random.

So oil contamination causes the belt to expand in width. So all we need to know is the width of a new belt and the available width of the crankshaft sprocket. A gauge which fits over a new belt but is narrower than the second measurement.

 

[Brilec]

Thanks to post your video if you manage to see something

As that strainer is almost on the bottom of the sump, I very much doubt you would be able to see anything without removing the sump.

 

[Jean_Luc]

yes will do, lets see in march
according to this photo the oil pan is submerged in oil.
actual level may be few cm above the pan 😅

Great !
Yes the oil level is above the lower oil pan. It goes roughly up to oil pump sprocket.

So oil contamination causes the belt to expand in width. So all we need to know is the width of a new belt and the available width of the crankshaft sprocket. A gauge which fits over a new belt but is narrower than the second measurement.

Yes it is the idea of this gauge but I don't know what is the margin between the width of the guide and the width of a new belt. Probably not much. A rubber belt inflates when it is in contact with ester oils and I don't know how oil contamination by fuel or soot particles affects this expansion.

On this 2 pictures, we see a belt (old model) which starts to loss parts on its side. We guess the shape of crankshaft guide chamfer on the belt side.

PureTech crankshaft sprocket:

As that strainer is almost on the bottom of the sump, I very much doubt you would be able to see anything without removing the sump.

I agree. The strainer is around 1 centimeter above the bottom of the pan and there is residual oil even with the hole drain opened. So to see something with an endoscope, residual oil should be removed by suction.
Of course, the best way is to remove the oil pan.

 

[Jean_Luc]

Hi,
Here is the notice of the gauge: