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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Duplicated post, as I did not post in Mk1 5008 location. Moderators pls remove other post.
Yesterday I tested my washers and lights as pre-MOT check and all worked fine.
Today, they failed the car on the MOT due to washer system not working.
It's always worked, never had an issue, and always used quality branded washer fluid in the system. That makes the whole thing very bizarre. Almost to the point where I start thinking up a conspiracy theory, but they don't really fix such car systems (Halfords) so they would not really benefit from screwing something up.
Rang Peugeot MD, pump is 30 pounds, but the chap said that he has never sold one for the 5008, so he advised fuse checks etc before I order the pump.

Investigation this evening:
1. Stripped back RHS wheel arch, pulled motor out, dumped the washer fluid, tested the motor on a spare 12V battery, works fine!
2. Checked fuse H3. All good.
3. Swapped H3 fuse with another 10 A fuse just in case, no difference.
4. 12V feed to fuse H3 is permanently live.
5. At the motor terminal, the voltage is zero when demanding washer action.
6. Steering stalk is not defective as washer demand is triggering wipers to wipe, just no water comes out, and no motor whirring happens.
7. To me this all points to a relay of some sort being defective. Is there a relay, or is this solid state switched?
8. I also notice near the washer bottle there is what looks like a motor it's sort of black and 100 mm x 100 mm, and has a round bit on it like a fan, it has some hoses that look like washer hoses going into it. I wonder if that device is responsible for directing the washer fluid to the front or back windows and/or headlights? I wonder if that may be the culprit? I don't know what it's called, I can't see a p/n on it.

Any thoughts are welcome, this is driving me nuts.

Just to add, 2011 model 5008 2.0 HDi manual 6 speed with factory bi-xenons.
 

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It's usually a single pump for front and rear and I believe but don't know for sure that the direction of the motor dictates whether it pumps to front or rear.

Does the other unit's pipework go to the washer bottle, if not and it's a petrol engine then it may be the vapour reclamation unit (don't know the correct name) but it lives in the same area as the washer bottle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
It's usually a single pump for front and rear and I believe but don't know for sure that the direction of the motor dictates whether it pumps to front or rear.

Does the other unit's pipework go to the washer bottle, if not and it's a petrol engine then it may be the vapour reclamation unit (don't know the correct name) but it lives in the same area as the washer bottle.
Thanks. It's a single motor. It has a single entry and a single exit point that then branches immediately into two hoses. From what I can tell the outlet then goes to the unit on the RH inner wing which I think serves the function of directing the washer fluid to headlights, windscreen or rear tailgate.

I have just done another test:

1. headlights ON, washer engaged, it washes headlamps, and I can hear the motor running. BUT it does not wash windscreen.
2. headlights OFF, washer engaged, silence, no motor running and wipers moving, no water coming out of washer jets. Same story for tailgate, no washer functionality, no motor running.

Therefore, I can rule out (I think):
1. fuse F3
2. motor
3. stalk switch
4. pipes blocked or coming adrift

I can suspect the culprit is the unit responsible for diverting washer fluid to headlights, and two glass surfaces. Trouble is I do not know for certain what that unit is. Tracing the pipes it must be located behind the bumper. I have also done another test:
5. I pulled off the two hoses on the pump outlet. Washing headlights both pipes push water out at high pressure. If headlights are off, nothing happens. I suppose the control system waits for the diverter valve to move where it needs to move before it engages the pump. That's just my thinking, but without a vehicle wiring diagram I cannot be certain.

It would be good if someone with access to the vehicle diagrams could check and confirm if that's what it is before I start removing and taking apart to try and clean or loosen the relevant solenoid or actuator or motor. I am actually tempted to book into a garage, as bumper likely needs to come off, and that's not a one man job. Question is, do I use a generic (but very good in my personal experience over several years), a French car specialist in town (I heard they are good) or main dealer at 95 GBP per hour. LOL.

MOT history of the vehicle (3 years ago) shows an MOT failure for headlight washers not working. So I suspect there is some sort of infrequent recurring issue with the system. I do not have proof that the unit has been replaced. I suspect something was just cleaned up or banged against the garage floor :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Just seen that on Citroen C4 there are TWO pumps when Xenons are fitted, and ONE pump without xenon. I do wonder if I may also have TWO pumps, as the car is a factory xenon equipped model….

Just looking on flea bay, the washer bottles and pumps listed as suitable for the 3008 or the 5008 have side entry pumps. Mine fits to down to bottom and looks different. So it looks like xenon cars may have a different pump, and possibly a second pump. Or perhaps the way the pump operates actuates the diverter valve, if one is fitted that is, between front/rear/headlights. Or just one that does front/rear, and then headlights are on separate pump. Theory.

I am yet to find on my car a pump that resembles p/n 6434.75.
 

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Just seen that on Citroen C4 there are TWO pumps when Xenons are fitted, and ONE pump without xenon. I do wonder if I may also have TWO pumps, as the car is a factory xenon equipped model….

Just looking on flea bay, the washer bottles and pumps listed as suitable for the 3008 or the 5008 have side entry pumps. Mine fits to down to bottom and looks different. So it looks like xenon cars may have a different pump, and possibly a second pump. Or perhaps the way the pump operates actuates the diverter valve, if one is fitted that is, between front/rear/headlights. Or just one that does front/rear, and then headlights are on separate pump. Theory.

I am yet to find on my car a pump that resembles p/n 6434.75.
No real knowledge of the car, but I would expect the headlight washer pump to be a higher power/pressure than the one for front/rear since it doesn't have the assistance of wipers. That's the case for my 206 which in Sweden has headlight washers even on normal halogen lights.

With the lights on, could you have an assistant activate the washer - you'd be free to feel by touch, or probe terminals with voltmeter, if the pump you're investigating is actually the one operating, or if there's a second one..

A common (don't know if it's the case for you) way to drive a reversible pump is to have each of the two wires passing through a dual throw relay, that when at rest connects the line to ground. (ground and ground connected to the pump -> no running)
Depending on if you want front or rear, one of the relays activates and flips its wire to +12V instead (ground and +12V -> runs one way, +12V and ground -> runs other way. The normal setut is that depending on which way it spins, the fluid is pushed out one of two outlets.

That it runs neither way for you could be down to a break in one of the wires. You could check for connectivity between the terminals of the plug that connects to the pump and ground. You could also measure for voltage (when activated) between the terminals and a know good ground point instead of betwen terminals, which you might still get in one case (front or back) if it's a break in just one of the wires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No real knowledge of the car, but I would expect the headlight washer pump to be a higher power/pressure than the one for front/rear since it doesn't have the assistance of wipers. That's the case for my 206 which in Sweden has headlight washers even on normal halogen lights.

With the lights on, could you have an assistant activate the washer - you'd be free to feel by touch, or probe terminals with voltmeter, if the pump you're investigating is actually the one operating, or if there's a second one..

A common (don't know if it's the case for you) way to drive a reversible pump is to have each of the two wires passing through a dual throw relay, that when at rest connects the line to ground. (ground and ground connected to the pump -> no running)
Depending on if you want front or rear, one of the relays activates and flips its wire to +12V instead (ground and +12V -> runs one way, +12V and ground -> runs other way. The normal setut is that depending on which way it spins, the fluid is pushed out one of two outlets.

That it runs neither way for you could be down to a break in one of the wires. You could check for connectivity between the terminals of the plug that connects to the pump and ground. You could also measure for voltage (when activated) between the terminals and a know good ground point instead of betwen terminals, which you might still get in one case (front or back) if it's a break in just one of the wires.
Thanks for that.
So if I remove the pump and power one terminal +12 and the other ground then it will spin one way, and vice-versa, like a normal DC motor would do I guess?

I have confirmed now there are definitely TWO motors. The blue one works and is powering the headlight washers. The other one, which is further forward, is less accessible, but I plan to take it out and test it. Hopefully it's just a dead motor, and I can get a new one and fit. Wiring issues are a bigger problem as the engine bay is quite inaccessible on this car.

My tank looks like this one:

https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-number/9685005780/part/front-windscreen-washer-reservoir/partid/7153049/
 

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Thanks for that.
So if I remove the pump and power one terminal +12 and the other ground then it will spin one way, and vice-versa, like a normal DC motor would do I guess?
Yup, and the impellers direction of spin will push the fluid out one of the openings, one to the front and one to the rear.

I have confirmed now there are definitely TWO motors. The blue one works and is powering the headlight washers. The other one, which is further forward, is less accessible, but I plan to take it out and test it. Hopefully it's just a dead motor, and I can get a new one and fit. Wiring issues are a bigger problem as the engine bay is quite inaccessible on this car.

My tank looks like this one:

https://www.proxyparts.com/car-parts-stock/information/part-number/9685005780/part/front-windscreen-washer-reservoir/partid/7153049/
Before pulling the pump and risk disturbing the seals, I'd just disconnect the plug and stick a meter or test light in the terminals and see if it's getting voltage when activating front/rear washer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Yup, and the impellers direction of spin will push the fluid out one of the openings, one to the front and one to the rear.



Before pulling the pump and risk disturbing the seals, I'd just disconnect the plug and stick a meter or test light in the terminals and see if it's getting voltage when activating front/rear washer.
I'll try to do that, but the bumper is so close that I'm not sure I can. Removing those plugs single handedly is pretty much impossible I think. That's why I was thinking just pull the whole lump out, then disconnect plug and pipes and perform tests. Alternatively I can try and trace the cable to the pump up into the engine bay, and break a bit of insulation for +/-12V testing purposes, although I am not too keen on doing that and I think most cables in there are protected with a protective conduit, which I am certainly not keen to cut through.

Removing the bumper I am avoiding like the plague, fog lights, parking sensors, all too many cables likely to get kinked or stretched before detaching, especially without a proper skilled assistant. Alternative is to try and partially detach the washer bottle and give it a twist towards the wheel in order to position the pumps better for access.
 

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I'll try to do that, but the bumper is so close that I'm not sure I can. Removing those plugs single handedly is pretty much impossible I think. That's why I was thinking just pull the whole lump out, then disconnect plug and pipes and perform tests. Alternatively I can try and trace the cable to the pump up into the engine bay, and break a bit of insulation for +/-12V testing purposes, although I am not too keen on doing that and I think most cables in there are protected with a protective conduit, which I am certainly not keen to cut through.

Removing the bumper I am avoiding like the plague, fog lights, parking sensors, all too many cables likely to get kinked or stretched before detaching, especially without a proper skilled assistant. Alternative is to try and partially detach the washer bottle and give it a twist towards the wheel in order to position the pumps better for access.

No knowledge of how accessible things are (not very by the sound of it:) ), but might it be possible to backprobe (getting test probes onto the back of the connector where the wires enter and one usually can see a bit of the crimp connector) it while in place? (some connectors might have silicone? gunk insulating/water proofing the connector, making it not possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
No knowledge of how accessible things are (not very by the sound of it:) ), but might it be possible to backprobe (getting test probes onto the back of the connector where the wires enter and one usually can see a bit of the crimp connector) it while in place? (some connectors might have silicone? gunk insulating/water proofing the connector, making it not possible.

Absolutely no way, I can barely drag my hand in to touch the pump, never mind tinkering with wires and removing it. Bumper has to come off. On my previous car (Skoda Superb) the front bumper could come off in 3 mins. On this one, it is a bigger job, but for someone who has done it before or has clear instructions from Peugeot, it's probably not a big deal.
I don't mind paying someone to do the job; but it would be annoying if it is not a pump problem. I'll have to take gamble and just order a new one online, it's just a few pounds.
I do wonder if both pumps operate via the same fuse. User handbook does not differentiate between xenon equipped and halogen headlights cars. It just states fuse F3 for washer system, and that fuse is OK. It is frustrating that it is so hard finding any concrete information to repair a Peugeot 5008. I had the same problem a few years ago on a 605. When anything goes wrong, information is so scarce, you have to go to a main dealer and pay a lot of cash.
 

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The best manual for your Peugeot is the Peugeot Service Box and SEDRE. There are several ways to get hold of it, but I recommend the emanual. Do not click the blue panels at the top of the page, just scroll down for £9.99 offerings.

You get the full information for all the models listed (5008 is included), whichever model you order. If a long download is a problem, go for the disk option.
 
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