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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, the windscreen washers recently failed in our 307cc.
I checked the fuses (OK) checked there was 12v at the lead that goes into the pump (OK) and checked the pump (Not working)
I replaced the pump but it still doesn't work.
I've tested the new pump off the car and it's fine.
There must be a high resistance somewhere else that although lets the voltage through to be read on a meter is too high to allow a decent current to flow.
I've connected a bulb and that won't light either.
I'm suspecting the switch has been arching as the pump got worse but I'd like to know if there is a relay in the circuit and if so where it is.
Any help would be appreciated, especially a link to a wiring diagram which I'm just about to start looking for.
Mike
 

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More likely to be transistor switched rather than a relay as it's a small motor and won't need high current switching. How are you measuring the voltage feed to the motor? Is it across the plug or are you testing each wire to a good grounding point on the chassis ?

If you have a poor earth to the motor the voltage you are reading could be bleeding through from another circuit
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply.
I measured the voltage by poking two wires into the plug that feeds the motor, I also put a bulb across those two wires and it wouldn't light.
I didn't try the wires to earth, the fact I can't draw any current means there's a fault.
Without knowing for sure if there is a relay I'm going to pull the com unit off the column and see what the contacts look like in there.
Not a job I'm looking forward to :(
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Well I've had the com2000 unit apart and all the wiper connections looked ok, I gave them a clean and put it all back but it still doesn't work.
I'd still like to know if there's a relay in between the switch and the pump.
Mike
 

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Well I've had the com2000 unit apart and all the wiper connections looked ok, I gave them a clean and put it all back but it still doesn't work.
I'd still like to know if there's a relay in between the switch and the pump.
Mike
Not sure on the 307, on the 206 there's no relay on the pre-plexed ones (up-to 2001) where the polarity reversal (at least for hatches) etc instead happens in the stalk switch. On later models (multiplexed), there are two relays in the engine fusebox that controls the polarity changes depending if you want fluid to the front or rear, and an electronic driver controlling the relays (supplying power to the coils of the relays as needed), I'd imagine at rest both relays would be connected to ground.

You could isolate the problem to power or ground side of the circuit by connecting a bulb between the +terminal of the plug and battery- for checking the positive side, and the negative terminal of the plug and battery+ to check the ground connection.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Good idea but which one's which, plus I don't want to take the wheel and arch liner out again as I know the problem's not down there. Still if I have to :(
 

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Good idea but which one's which, plus I don't want to take the wheel and arch liner out again as I know the problem's not down there. Still if I have to :(
Keep note of which probe on the meter goes where on the plug - if it (the meter) says 12V then the positive probe is on the +12V supply. If it says -12V then the positive probe is on the ground.

Or instead of measuring between the terminals, with washer activated, measure between one terminal of the plug at a time and body ground/battery-. Only the +12V terminal should give a 12V reading.
 

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Getting a voltage reading but failing to draw current suggests the voltage reading is bleeding through from elswhere but without sufficient current to power anything that takes more than a few milliamps - i.e. a digital multimeter

A high resistance in the line would cause a substantial voltage drop across the resistance so you really need to check the voltage with it connected with the negative lead to ground and checking both wires. One should give you a 12v reading with the other showing 0v as it will effectively be at ground potential.
 

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Got the engine fusebox diagram for our 807, F14 for the front and rear washers feeds two built in relays R9 & R10, both triggered from the BSI then out to wires 11 and 14 on the 16 pin green connecting block. No colours for these wires (would have to download an individual diagram for the washers), maybe they are numbered on the block?
Sorry if this is no use!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I've been into my local garage and they've pulled this off their autodata program.
I still don't think this is right for our car as being a cc there is no rear wash, I'm pretty sure the relay in this picture is for reversing the polarity.
I shall remove relays one at a time and see if the voltage I'm getting disappears. if I can work out which relay it is I'll try a new one.
Mike
 

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I've been into my local garage and they've pulled this off their autodata program.
I still don't think this is right for our car as being a cc there is no rear wash, I'm pretty sure the relay in this picture is for reversing the polarity.
I shall remove relays one at a time and see if the voltage I'm getting disappears. if I can work out which relay it is I'll try a new one.
Mike
In the second pic, the two relays (Single + left part of the double) just right of the unit with the transistor symbol looks to be wired in a reversing fashion (+12 from fuse F14, and ground (looks like) wired to the switch terminals (87 and 87a) with the common (30) terminals going to the load.

By the diagram, both lines to the pump would be connected to ground with the relays at rest. Depending on which relay is activated you get different polarity to the common terminals/pump.

Since the relays are controlled (individually) from the electronics, it might be that Peugeot uses the same unit for CC's as for hatches and just configures the BSI to never turn on the relay that would activate the pump in reverse for rear wash on a hatch. Maybe a setting like Rear wash Present: No
Might even use the same dual-exit pump, but I'd expect a single exit port one...
 

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That diagram looks similar to one from Peugeot. No hope of removing relays unless you are handy with a soldering iron! Maybe the stalk on the Comms unit doesn't have a rear wipe ring so the relays only ever have to work 1 way?
What about back probing 11 & 14 from the green plug and seeing if you get volts when the washers are activated, at least that will confirm it is the fusebox or the wiring down to the pump.
 

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No they are tiny and built in to the board, replacement might be possible depending on how skilled you are with a soldering iron. They are though very reliable, the defect is more likely to be damp ingress. The large visible ones you see are for the A/C which is an option.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Well I've done a BSI reset and no luck. I've got a feeling this is going to be expensive and beyond my expertise :(
 

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Discussion Starter #17
just replace the fuse box under the bonnet, its not coded in you just need to get a matching one
I've been looking at them on ebay, is that not the bsi unit? on ebay one seller says it does need coding to the main ecu and I thought bsi units could only be coded once and that used ones couldn't be re coded.
Mike
 

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I've been looking at them on ebay, is that not the bsi unit? on ebay one seller says it does need coding to the main ecu and I thought bsi units could only be coded once and that used ones couldn't be re coded.
Mike
The bsi is inside the car behind the glovebox door. The underbonnet fusebox is exactly what the description says - a fusebox.

The BSI needs to be matched with the ECU and generally can only be done once. To be matched with a second ecu it needs to be virginised first. The fusebox is simply a box that contains fuses and maybe some relays along with associated wiring and does not require matching.
 

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You must get an auto sparks to inspect the engine fusebox and check whether the relay is activating and feeding wires 11 & 14, at least this will confirm a new fusebox is needed or not. It may just be a loose connection or a bit of moisture that can be dried out.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for the help so far.
This weekend I shall pull it apart again and see if it's the + or - that's at fault, that will be fairly easy after that I'm not sure.
I'm tempted to just run a Heath Robinson feed from a push button in the car down to the pump lol.
Mike
 
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