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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have figured out my whole system except the subwoofer, please help:confused::nono:


I have in mind runing componments in the front with a sub
i have found a 4-channel amp that gives 4X 120 RMS
The Amp is bridgeable
I will then have 240 watt RMS for a subwoofer

1st question:
will 240 Watt RMS SUBwoofer be enough


2nd question: (most important question for me)
What sub should i get that is available in Europe that has 240 watt RMS:confused:

I actually read that i can go 1.5 times the watt my amp provides
240x1.5= 360
will this mean i can buy a subwoofer with a rating of 350 RMS Watt????


A subwoofer that just gives a bit of punch and enhances the sound is satisfactory for me i think, i dont need my car to shake, but will it be enough :(?
 

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I have figured out my whole system except the subwoofer, please help:confused::nono:


I have in mind runing componments in the front with a sub
i have found a 4-channel amp that gives 4X 120 RMS
The Amp is bridgeable
I will then have 240 watt RMS for a subwoofer

1st question:
will 240 Watt RMS SUBwoofer be enough


2nd question: (most important question for me)
What sub should i get that is available in Europe that has 240 watt RMS:confused:

I actually read that i can go 1.5 times the watt my amp provides
240x1.5= 360
will this mean i can buy a subwoofer with a rating of 350 RMS Watt????


A subwoofer that just gives a bit of punch and enhances the sound is satisfactory for me i think, i dont need my car to shake, but will it be enough :(?

I currently run 300W @4 Ohm from A DLS A6 (could push 600W into 2 Ohm) to a 12" DLS W712 (single 4 Ohm coil) which is 250W RMS, 480 Max.

Unless you dB-dragging - playing max volume constant notes - but actual music, you'll only hit max power briefly and occasionally.
For every 3dB of volume increase you need 2x the power. For a perceived doubling of volume you need 10 dB which means ~ 10x the power. So between really LOUD and painfully LOUD there's actually a large power difference. It doesn't actually take very much power to get decently loud, but it then multiplies rapidly if one wants to go to the REALLY/STUPID/INSANE levels... With a sub with a sensitivity of 91 dB, theoretically you'd only need 1W for 91dB, ~10W for 101dB, 100W for 111dB and 1000W for 121dB...

If you amp is actually more powerful than the sub - simply adjust the gain so that you don't use the full capacity of the amp, by turning down the gain

The power of the sub is how much it can handle, not how much it needs, so you can always run a less powerful amp - the thing to avoid is to try to get so loud with a lesser amp that you increase the gain so much that you make the amp clip, and essentially put out square waves. A peak-peak fully square wave will put 2x the power into the sub compared to a peak-peak sine wave, while also being more mechanically stressful.

So it doesn't have to be exactly the same numbers (or a 240W sub in your case.

Check what load the amp is capable of handling when bridged.
Typically, if a multichannel amps might be say 100 W/channel @4 Ohm, roughly 200 W/channel @ 2 Ohm, but when bridged it might only be able to handle a 4 Ohm load (giving the single load about 200 W)

If your amp needs a 4 Ohm load when bridged, you need either a single coil 4 Ohm sub or a dual coil 2 Ohm/coil (and wire the 2 coils in series). If you get a dual 4 Ohm coil, it can only be wired to 2 Ohm (in parallel) which wouold be too low for the amp, or 8 ohm (in series) which would only give you half the available power from the amp.

Loudness is also dependent on what type enclosure you use. a vented or bandpass enclosure will get louder in a specific smaller frequency range.
With a ported enclosure you'll also need to prevent exposure to frequencies too low, using a subsoniic filter either as a feature in the amp or separate external, as the port doesn't offer any resistance then and the sub can be mechanically overstressed. Compare to a ball with a leak (the port). Punch it quick and much air doesn't have time to leak, and the ball offers resistance to the punch. Push it slowly and the air leaks and there's not much resistance to the push, and you can push the sides of the ball together.

A sealed enclosure won't get as loud but will cover a larger frequency range.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The Amp i found, restricts it to 4 Ohms when bridged, so yea 240 watts RMS. + I need suggestions for specific subwoofers, i can probably build my wooden box, or also buy a finished one with a box what can be suggested ???
probably going with a Ported enclosure

how big an sub will i need, its for a small 3 door car. im thinking between 8-12 inches. what will you guys recommend 8,10 or 12?
 

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The Amp i found, restricts it to 4 Ohms when bridged, so yea 240 watts RMS. + I need suggestions for specific subwoofers, i can probably build my wooden box, or also buy a finished one with a box what can be suggested ???
probably going with a Ported enclosure

how big an sub will i need, its for a small 3 door car. im thinking between 8-12 inches. what will you guys recommend 8,10 or 12?
12" is doable but does eat a good chunk of the boot volume, even with a sealed box. If I was shopping today I'd probably go for a 10" or 2x 8"

How much space are you willing to 'give up'?

Sorry, no specific suggestions from me - I'm not current with what's available.
But when asking for specific suggestions it's probably a good idea got mention the budget - not much point being suggested stuff that's way out of the budget...
 

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I'd probably go for a Pioneer Champion 12" or RockFord Fosgate Prime 12" series. An enclosured box is fine for a single 12" You aren't going to really notice much difference at 240W, but remember always with an enclosured box you will need more power to get louder and you won't be able to hit as low notes than in a vented enclosure. You could go for 8" woofers as well.

If you are going to run your highs and mids off at this level, then you might as well run them off your head unit, if its any good. I get 55W RMS off my head unit but mine is pretty expensive. If you haven't brought your amplifier, a mono amp is much better to drive one or two woofers rather than 4ch. Just remember to get a woofer with a higher wattage than your amp, then you don't blow them up.

Basically the size you want is how deep you want your base to go, the larger the cone the lower the note it may produce, but its different between bands of course. A 12" will sound deeper than 8" etc. I'd go to a store and ask to hear which one you like before buying, but I've always gone for at least 12", which sounded nice in my old Toyota Echo (3DR).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
My front speakers will be runing 100 watts each rms

and the woofer 240 watts

first you say sealed/enclosed box is fine and then write remember vented are always louder? so should i go open or sealed?
 

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My front speakers will be runing 100 watts each rms

and the woofer 240 watts

first you say sealed/enclosed box is fine and then write remember vented are always louder? so should i go open or sealed?
A ported box can be louder for a small range of frequencies if properly balanced properly wrt port and volume. If tuned higher (do you know what frequency range you want the gain at?) you definitely want a subsonic filter for protection - so an amp with it, or an external one.

Here's a read on the characteristics of sealed/ported/bandpass

I'd say go with sealed, but ultimately it comes down to what YOU want/prefer.
If you don't know - go listen first. In stores, friend's cars etc. Or be ready to sell and replace whatever you first get, if you end up not liking it.

Another link on the sealed vs ported topic.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
soo a subsonic filter is just a low pass filter and high pass filter right? cause my amp has that.
I think i will build a ported subwoofer, so i can get big boom and and yes make it play 40-80 hz idk really?

in the video you lined he says sealed is best for music and ported best for home cinema

so should i get sealed anyways + not that much space in the trunk of a peugeot 206 3 door
 

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soo a subsonic filter is just a low pass filter and high pass filter right? cause my amp has that.
I think i will build a ported subwoofer, so i can get big boom and and yes make it play 40-80 hz idk really?

in the video you lined he says sealed is best for music and ported best for home cinema

so should i get sealed anyways + not that much space in the trunk of a peugeot 206 3 door
High-pass with a really low frequency ( < 30 Hz or so), depending on your tuning frequency of the port) It needs to block stuff below the tuning frequency - check how low the high-pass on the amp will go.

You also want to low-pass filter the signal (with a higher frequency, depending on where you set the break between sub and woofers) to block out the mid and high stuff from the sub, just as with a sealed box.
Make sure the amp can do both at the same time, it's often high- or low-pass for a given channel / channel pair...

To see what sort of frequency response you get, you'll need some software to play with the port and volume sizes, given the parameters of the sub. Should be usable freeware available out there.

What to get - if you're more for sound quality I'd say sealed (not that mine doesn't get plenty loud), if you're more for loud go for ported. But yeah, My box takes about 40% (some accessories stashed in the spaces around it (tow strap, starter cables, flares, tyre fill, ratchet tie downs, etc) as it doesn't conform perfectly to the shape/angles of the space. Amp mounted on the back of the 60% seat-back - see attachment. If you're building your own box you can definitely get better utilisation of space, that's a generic premade box with a volume fitting the W712
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
The amp has
LPF 50-250 Hz
HPF 80-2000 Hz


higher up it says frequency area 10-50.000 Hz

your reply has made me stick with sealed Box

but yea will my amp then restrict me to not get low bass ? :(


i have another question too?

so my amp gives 4x 120 watt rms (4 ohms)
if i bridge channel 3 and 4 will that then give 240 watts 4 (ohms) or will it change the Ohms when doing a bridge connection. Im sorry for being confused i still dont understand the ohms changing when doing certain connections



i also need information on how i connect the inputs

Rca from aftermarket headunit to the amp. I dont know where the speakers should go and where the subwoofer should go input wise

Link with a picture of my amp from the input side of it
https://asset.conrad.com/media10/isa/160267/c1/-/da/373515_ZB_01_FB/image.jpg?x=600&y=600
 

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The amp has
LPF 50-250 Hz
HPF 80-2000 Hz


higher up it says frequency area 10-50.000 Hz

your reply has made me stick with sealed Box

but yea will my amp then restrict me to not get low bass ? :(
50Hz is rather high to use as subsonic, I wouldn't have wanted to tune above that.

10 - 50.000 Hz is the total range the amp can handle and more than covers the audible range.

Not get low bass -not at all - for the sub use the low-pass (blocks anything higher than the set frequency (well,, technically an attenuation of XdB/octave, not a 'wall') Everything below goes to the sub. Leave high-pass off (if both can be active atthe same time.

For the fronts to set the high-pass filter to the point where the woofers will have to pick up (where the sub no longer give you enough)

i have another question too?

so my amp gives 4x 120 watt rms (4 ohms)
if i bridge channel 3 and 4 will that then give 240 watts 4 (ohms) or will it change the Ohms when doing a bridge connection. Im sorry for being confused i still dont understand the ohms changing when doing certain connections

i also need information on how i connect the inputs

Rca from aftermarket headunit to the amp. I dont know where the speakers should go and where the subwoofer should go input wise

Link with a picture of my amp from the input side of it
https://asset.conrad.com/media10/isa/160267/c1/-/da/373515_ZB_01_FB/image.jpg?x=600&y=600
Assuming you get a SVC 4 Ohm or DVC 2 Ohm sub (wire those coils in series for 1 x 4Ohm.

The load will always be what it is (4Ohm), that's determined by the sub(s) and how they're wired if there are more than 1 sub/coil involved.

When bridging 2 channels one can 'say' that the channels 'share' the load, so each 'sees' half of it , ie 2 Ohm, which is also how low a load each channel can handle on its own.

Technically it's a question of how much current the outputs of the amp can deliver.
The internal design of the amp determines the max voltage it can produce on the output. The design also determines how much current it can deliver. Current=Voltage/resistance, so the design also determines how low a load the amp can handle.
With a single 2 ohm load getting 120W, we can calculate the voltage and current provided by the amp: As P = U^2/R we get that U = sqrt(P*R) sqrt(120*2) = 15.5V and a current of I= U/R = 15.5V/2 = 7.75A.
When you bridge, you place the two channels in series, doubling the voltage.
If you were to hook up a 2 ohm load to the bridged outputs you get a current of (15.5+15.5)/2 = 15.5A. If the amp only can handle 7,75 (or a bit more for a little margin, but the stated limit of 2Ohm/channel is stated for a reason), then you'll likely have some output transistor smoke-signalling their displeasure.:mad:
This is why the bridge needs twice the load compared to a single channel, as the voltage doubles you need twice the load to keep the current the same.

Same thing if you were to hook a 1 Ohm load to a single channel - 15.5V/1Ohm=15.5A and sad transistors.

Connections: Your two front RCA goes on the two inputs on the right as they do not offer lowpass filter needed by the sub. Set the crossover switch to HPF. The frequency setting you'll have to play with, and see where the sub drops off and the woofers need to pick it up, If you simulate the sub and box in a program, you can see whereabouts the sub starts to drop off at the yop end and use that as a starting point for the frequency setting.

IIRC you had 3 RCAs, so a single sub channel. Not sure if the inputs on the left can be internally bridged (if so just plug the 3rd RCA into either L or R). If not get a Y-adapter (1F-2M) so you split the single 3rd RCA into two and plug the two ends into the inputs.

Not sure about the output RCAs, but likely a loop-though of either right or left side inputs to carry the signal to a second amp.

Set the crossover on the leftto LPF. Frequency is to play with, each car is different.

Super Bass switch offers optional extra boost of the bass, +6 or +12 dB.
Play with it and see if you like the response, but be careful about clipping outputs, especially if you also play with the sub level settings on the HU.

 

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Discussion Starter #13
My brain just blew up.

getting a single voice coil 4 ohms subwoofer bridged will give 4 ohms (im doing that)

where the inputs go got me confused

look at the picture
 

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My brain just blew up.

getting a single voice coil 4 ohms subwoofer bridged will give 4 ohms (im doing that)

where the inputs go got me confused

look at the picture
Let't try to knock the pieces back :bang: and we'll soon have you :grad:
Inputs:
Yes your front RCAs from the HU go to the two rightmost RCA inputs as you indicate. Set crossover on the right to HPF (High Pass Filter)
Your sub RCA (single one IIRC) goes into a Y-splitter which then plugs into the leftmost two RCA inputs, as indicated. Set the crossover on the left to LPF (Low Pass Filter)

The RCA connectors in the middle, labelled 'OUT' will not be used unless you add a second amp. THe manual though decent, isn't explicit on which inputs are passed through, but my guess would be the fronts...

On the other end of the amp I'd expect two bigger terminal for +12V and ground, a small one for the remote turn on signal from the HU and 2 sets of 4 terminals (screws or spring loaded) labeled like + - + -
+ - + - and maybe |_bridge_| indicating which two terminals that are to be used for a bridged connection.

Had a look around Conrad and found what I think is the amp in question (see also linked manual above):


OK, power terminals weren't bigger, but otherwise close enough :D

Power, ground and remote turn on to their respective connector on the left.
Front speaker wires go to their connectors in the middle.
Wires to the sub go the two outer connectors in the block on the right.

I'd use fork style crimp connectors to terminate the wires, rather than just sripping the wire and shoving it in under the screws - risk for shorts due to errant strands...
. There's also a version where the very end of the tines are bent up at 90 degrees, which works even better with the screw type terminals the amp has.

Load: To be picky, a SVC 4 Ohm sub is always a 4 Ohm load, no matter what you connect it to (unless you've got it connected series/parallel with other stuff, but then the total is what is, and the single 4 Ohm only part of the total), a single channel or a bridged channel pair.

The amp can handle any load down to 2 Ohm per channel, or down to 4 Ohm if you connect the load over a bridged channel pair.

You could connect the sub to a single channel, but you'd only get 60W.

If you had a DVC 2 ohm sub, you could technically connect each coil to a separate channel and get 120+120=240W. Benefit of instead wiring the coils in series and connecting them as a single 4 Ohm load to the channels bridged, is that both coils get the exact same signal.

Yup, I suck at keeping it short...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
a bit confused about the y-splitter look at the picture, im trying to show what i think you mean about it. (picture of the exact headunit i have in my car)


cool you found the exact amp i want to buy. Also shopping on Conrad electronics. :)



Very confused about the last part:

Tell me the smartest method of achieving bridged 240 watt 4 ohms. cause i get so confused, because of all the other possible solutions. I dont want to only get 60 watts from one channel. As i understand, you say the best method would be wiring the coils in series and connecting them as a single 4 ohms load. Here you are still talking about using a DVC, right?

and that would give me 240 watt too?
 

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a bit confused about the y-splitter look at the picture, im trying to show what i think you mean about it. (picture of the exact headunit i have in my car)


cool you found the exact amp i want to buy. Also shopping on Conrad electronics. :)



Very confused about the last part:

Tell me the smartest method of achieving bridged 240 watt 4 ohms. cause i get so confused, because of all the other possible solutions. I dont want to only get 60 watts from one channel. As i understand, you say the best method would be wiring the coils in series and connecting them as a single 4 ohms load. Here you are still talking about using a DVC, right?

and that would give me 240 watt too?
Not really shopping, I'm currently happy with what I've got :), but saw Conrad in the URL of the pic of the amp that you included, so decided to see if I could find more details about the amp :D

Connections:

Ahaaa, if you've got 3 PAIRS of RCA outputs (unless one of those 3 sets is an AUX in)
But if you've got FR FL RR RL and SUBR SUBL outputs then forget everything about Y-connectors and just get 2 sets of 2 channel RCA cables. Some HU only have 3 RCA outputs total (Front L+Front R + SUB (mono), not 3 pairs... )

Run one set from front outs on the HU to right side inputs on amp, the other set from SUB outs to left side inputs on the amp - Just like you indicate in the pic, but 2 RCAs and no Y for the sub, just like for the fronts.

240W:

Yes, for a 4 Ohm load using two coils in series, those coils would have to be 2 ohm each, IE a DVC 2 Ohm sub. Sorry to drag in essentially irrelevant things...

For 240W with a SVC 4 Ohm sub, simply wire the sub to the two outer of the 4 Rear speaker output terminals, as indicated by the *==bridged==* label (+ on amp to + on sub coil, ditto for -). That's it.
Also, don't be afraid to try it the other way around, + to - and - to + (some amps even have a button to internally flip the wiring) as it might sound better. Which polarity is better depends on speaker and sub locations in car, the car, sub enclosure type, enclosure orientation etc etc...

If you can't find a sub you like in SVC 4 Ohm, a DVC 2 Ohm will serve just as well, just place a wire link between the + of one of the colis and the - of the other coil. The remaining two unused terminals of the coils go to the amp just like the only two terminals of a SVC 4 Ohm sub.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I understand now thanks :) man, help much appreciated.
having a hard time finding cheap 240-300 watt subwoofers without enclosure
 
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