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Discussion Starter #1
Heads up for anyone with a 2010 1.6hdi 92bhp. At no time did my 308 on board display warn or notify me that my additive level was low or empty. As a result of running the engine with no additive I've blocked up my dpf and turbo solenoid faults p1445 and p2562.

The frustrating issue is my 2010 1.6hdi has been serviced every 12500 miles my the main dealer as recently as Dec 2017 and at no time was I warned the additive was low or empty. Surprisingly the dealer confirmed they don't check the eloys additive level and rely on the car reporting the level/number of doses remaining.

I've done 134, 000miles and wondered of anyone else has had the same problem of no warning for low or empty additive eloys fluid?

I am going to complain to peugeot to see if they will reimburse the repair cost because the failure appears to be that minor and major dealer services don't check the level and report back to you so you can take action. And the cars diagnostic fault reporting does not notify you the level was low or empty.

Anyone's views and experiences and most welcome. Jack
 

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If you have done 134k on the original DPF and additive then that is pretty good going. First fault code is just warning that the amount of residual additive in the dpf is high, but this is just a software counter. With the second code I would check the vacuum hoses for leaks, not sure it's related to the dpf at all. I would remove the dpf and visually inspect it. Replace it and top up the additive if needed and that will get rid of the first code. If the dpf is OK then you can just have it reset using Planet. Fix the solenoid boost fault and it'll probably be fine. Have you actually been under the car and check the eolys level in the tank/pouch?
 

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Fluid usually lasts 80-100k miles depending on fill frequency so as above you have done well but make sure you actually have a DPF before going further as said both those fault codes are common to many issues.

IF you do have a DPF

You now need to do 3 things
1 wash out your DPF
2 refill the fluid
3 TELL THE CAR it has fresh fluid AND a new DPF you must use a computer and tell the car or it wont know !
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Eccles. The DPF upon inspection was blocked up, no liquid would pour through it.

With the benefit of hindsight I should have soaked it in something caustic and then pressure washed it but for piece of mind I've bought a new DPF and put it on. I literally took the Peugeot error P1445 (Maximum threshold of additive in the particulate emission filter reached) to advise me that the Eloys had saturated and damaged the filter beyond what a regeneration can do to renew the DPF. Sorry I am a novice so learning the hard and expensive way here.

The P2562 (turbo boost position incorrect) error - All the vacuum hoses are sound, no cracks and not leaks. So I replaced a new turbo solenoid. Took it to Peugeot to clear the codes and tell it has a new DPF. Which they did for a huge fee... Again learnt my lesson the hard. And then they told me a new fault had developed on the test drive which was not previously reported, namely the diesel additive was empty. I got them to inspect and they suspect it was empty for a period of time and this most likely blocked the DPF and solenoid.

Seems like you can only get the Eloys fluid from Peugeot so I got them to refill and reset the additive counter (I would have had to get them to computer reset it anyway).

I feel I have ground for complaint to Peugeot. The basis of the complaint is that the Eloys fluid had ran out with no warning or notification to me from the cars on board computer or the main dealer last major service.

Furthermore, the last major service in Dec 17 on 126,000 miles reported no faults and no warnings. The dealership admitted that Eloys fluid additive level check is not part of the minor or major service. This gap in the Peugeot official service checks and schedule I think makes them liable at least in part for the failure of the parts. Even the user handbook tells you to check oil, coolant etc but no mention of additive (Eloys fluid). New later models have fixed the issue with ad blue and a easy access fill but this is not the case on a 2010 hdi 1.6 92bhp

Any advice on how to make my case to Peugeot in the strongest manner would be appreciated
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks reliable406.

I always wait and refilled when warning low diesel light switches on. That way I maximise the the distance (miles) I can cover for the fixed number of Eloys fluid injections Peugeot allow (each time you remove the diesel filler a fixed amount of Eloys fluid is injected). I never do the quick £5 or £10 fill up because the Eloys is injected as a fixed quantity I believe which means too many £10 fill ups will add too much Eloys and essentially waste the fluid (expensive stuff) and probably damage the filter alittle.

As my previous reply indicated. I've got a new DPF filter but think with the benefit of hindsight and now knowing you and Eccles that the best thing was to wash the DPF out or at least try.

However, as I indicated in my reply to Eccles, when I got my codes cleared by Peugeot a new fault was reported that I had never seen before. The additive was empty. No previous warning on the dash was given. What the dealer thinks is all my issues have developed because I've been running for a good period of time with no additive.

Wish I had known you guys before. I enjoy learning and fixing stuff but this last week I needed the car badly for work so rushed the work and decisions. Ahh the benefit of hindsight could have saved me £100's
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Peugeot customer care just contacted me... They said..

Due to the age of your vehicle, we wouldn't be able to assist in reimbursing you for this repair. Peugeot confirmed that checking the DPF and the additive doesn't form part of a service or any visual health check. But, they are more than happy to pass on this feedback internally about getting this checked in the servicing. END​

Seems to me they are liable. For example, they ask for the dealer to check as part of the service check list the the pollen filter but not the additive. To me, they have their priorities completely wrong.

Do you agree Peugeot are liable in part or fully due to the car not reporting a low or empty additive level until after the damage has been done to other parts. The liability is with Peugeot because neither the owner nor the dealer are mandated to check the level and the owner has no easy means to check the level due to its inaccessible location thus further evidencing why the dealer should check.

Ultimately, if the level was low or empty I would have of course topped up. Whats you view?
 

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I am sorry but although i agree with the logic that it should be checked use of the fluid is variable depending on fuel ups and driving style will affect DPF regens there are too many variables.

The car does normally warn you when its low based on miles covered in your case the computer may not have reached the point it expected to need fluid !

Some say there is a level sender but from what i can see it just uses the resistance in the pump to decide when its empty no fluid being pumped=less resistance=warning

Big lesson here is dont trust peugeot to look after you or your car :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks once again for your reply and advice. I agree. Don't trust peugeot to look after the car. They appear to only respond to faults that have developed rather than prevention. I guess they have bigger margins/profit on repairs and replacement rather than prevention.

Lesson learnt. In future l'll check the eloys fluid after 50,000 miles and pre-emptively top back up to full.. Just on the eloys fluid. I am guessing it injects a fixed amount everytime you remove the filler cap, based on the pressure differential it works out when low and empty. This haphazard way of calculating appears to have let me down badly and I ran the car with no fluid because it never reached the desired threshold to activate.

Next time I will definitely use this forum to hook up with experts.
 

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Indeed. If you remove the fuel cap for more than about 15 seconds then the ecu will assume you have refuelled and inject a fix amount of eolys into the tank (so fill from empty to full every time and the eolys will last a lot longer, you've probably been doing that anyway). The ecu calculations are a little crude. They are just based of the eolys capacity when it has been told it has been filled minus the number of fixed injections it has done after fuelling. There is no gauge in the eolys reservoir.
The differential pressure sensor is used to calculate soot build up and when to trigger a regen. The 'additive in pef' is just another assumed counter based on regens and additive injections. Yes it's not the best but it does work if looked after, the trouble is that the manufacturers have done their best to not provide info as the maintenance is a good money earner (some manufacturers charge £1000+ for a new dpf). There is a Bosch document floating around the web for info on the ECU that details how the system works in good detail, can't find it on my laptop now though.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Eccles. Did a simple Google search for the bosch 1.6 hdi ecu pdf and found it I think. Its titled a training booklet and not for public distribution. Very insightful not just on the additive bit on lots of other things and reveals the science behind the black box of mystery that peugeot like to maintain in order to keep you coming back to main dealers.

Been running the car today and no engine management lights so fingers crossed the p2562 and p1445 are permanently resolved.

On a completely different topic. At some point I must attend the high biting point on the clutch. Its nearly at the top and I think they are self adjusting hydraulic clutches so not sure how more miles I have in this original factory installed clutch at 134,000miles use.

Clutches are completely outside of my field of expertisae though. Wonder if anyone can recommend someone so I can avoid a costly/overpriced dealer repair. Thanks to all.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Clutches are completely outside of my field of expertisae though. Wonder if anyone can recommend someone so I can avoid a costly/overpriced dealer repair. Thanks to all.
Just to add. Did some more research and will leave the clutch well alone. Theses no noise, vibration or slippage. Its just the mechanic alerted me to the high point. It feels to me like the high bite has always been there in the make and model of car. jack
 

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I have read through your complaint and you don't have any basis for legal recourse through Peugeot in my opinion.

The way it works is, Peugeot is the manufacturer of the vehicle. The dealer is a separate entity that merely has permission from Peugeot to use their branding and service their vehicles etc. Hence why you see "Arnold Clark Peugeot" or "Stoneacre Peugeot" etc.

I agree that checking the particle fluid should be checked at fixed intervals at major services and the dealer *should* be doing this for you.

Was your local Peugeot dealer a franchise? It might be helpful to construct a complaint letter to the dealer instead, make sure you point out what a loyal customer you were and after this experience, are considering taking your business elsewhere.

Personally I always use independent garages and take my own parts in there for the guys to fit - that way I know which parts are going in and what the service schedule should be. However the extra cost at a dealer is for that piece of mind that everything is being done and all you need to do is pay a bit extra for that piece of mind. I say that but my car came with a full dealer service history and the pollen filter was never changed. It was mouldy, so I don't trust dealers at all!! :eek:

In regards to the PEF fluid - AdBlue is a different system to Eolys and on modern cars it will have BOTH. Adblue is for a reduction in NoX, Eolys is for particulates.

In my 2008/2009 Peugeot 407, I connected it to Peugeot planet, took a note of the additive level reported back, drove until fuel light on, filled in £35 of diesel, took note of the additive level, drove until fuel light was on, filled in £20 of diesel and took note - just to test this theory out.

On £35 of fuel, the level dropped by 7ml. On £20, the level dropped by 4ml. So it seems to me the car calculates how much additive it requires? :confused: Or maybe it's just on the later ones which do this, the earlier ones just injected the same amount all the time?? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks bigk. Very helpful and. Most insightful about the fluid levels.

The dealer and peugeot customer care confirmed that there is no requirement to check the additive at major or minor service. Peugeot offered to pass on a request to include an additive check in the service bit this was on the basis of 'only for consideration' no promises.

Yes lost faith in the dealer. I was deluding myself in that paying extra I was getting a better service which pre-emptively identifies problems.

I feel the dealer should have flagged in the major service in Dec the additive was low. I have a feeling it was already empty then.

I think I will check the level after 40,000 miles now I have been fully topped and ecu reset. Moral of the story. Don't trust dealer, peugeot or the cars computer to check the eloys additive fluid.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Just a final update from peugeot customer care. I had complained that there is a gap in peugeot maintenance dealer service schedule because it does not check the additive level. In addition the car although it should report low and empty additive. For what ever reason it does not.

Peugeot said '
I understand your concerns with this; as the manufacturer's warranty on the vehicle ended in 2013, the costs of any repairs are the responsibility of the vehicle owner.

As you know, checking the additive isn't part of the service or visual health checks, but I can pass this feedback on internally. This isn't something we'd be able to investigate further.

As compensation doesn't form part of the warranty terms and conditions, I'm unable to offer this to you or reimburse you for the costs of this repair.

I’m sorry we couldn’t help more this time, but thanks again for contacting Peugeot customer care.

Kind regards' END
 
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