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Discussion Starter #1
Hi I'm new to this forum. I live in NE London, England. I've been trying to get my Daughter in law's 207 working. Its a 2009 1.6 litre 16V petrol turbo with 77,000 miles. She has been getting the Depollution System Fault message for some time. There have been a number of problems. The garage fitted new plugs and coils. I have replaced the battery and the coolant temperature sensor.

I have just visited a garage who had the full Peugeot/Citroen diagnostic software and they have cleared all faults, but one. The Depollution System Fault message has gone, though there is a warning triangle showing of the dashboard display.

The remaining fault is "Open circuit on Turbo Electric Cooling Pump".
Does anyone know if this is most likely to be wiring or the pump itself?
Will this be the cause of the warning triangle display?
Is replacing this pump a DIY job?
 

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hi and welcome

very common issue the turbo coolant pump, its the pump itself that has gone.

its on the front right hand side of the engine as u stand infront of the car, so just to the right of the turbo about half way down, its a front of the car job off to do it really, 2 bolts, electrical connector and the inlet and outlet pipes to it and it comes free.


that's what it is like.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
hi and welcome

very common issue the turbo coolant pump, its the pump itself that has gone.

its on the front right hand side of the engine as u stand infront of the car, so just to the right of the turbo about half way down, its a front of the car job off to do it really, 2 bolts, electrical connector and the inlet and outlet pipes to it and it comes free.


that's what it is like.
Ads, Thank you so much for your input. Very useful. Before I go off and replace the pump that cools turbo that boosts the engine I’ve been thinking about the recent history of this vehicle over the last few weeks
So far the plugs and coils were changed because the scan showed misfires. Though with a generic scanner not a Peugeot specific.
The coolant temperature gauge was replaced because the temp was showing maximum with a cold engine.
Now having had the engine scanned by a Peugeot specialist it is showing “Open circuit on additional electric water pump”.
This is a brand new fault as far as I can ascertain. I think it only appeared after driving the car following the clearing of all previous faults.
Other errors currently being reported on the dashboard are:
Tyre pressures (They are fine)
Puncture (There isn’t one)
Parking sensors not working (They don’t appear to be)
And of course the ubiquitous Depollution system faulty
This seems like a lot of things all to fail at the same time. Could it be that the root cause is a problem with the ECU. Maybe it’s not that all these things are broken it’s that the ECU is crying wolf.
I have just replaced the battery. One result is that the mirrors have started folding back when the car is locked. This feature stopped working months ago I’m told. This could suggest that the battery has been a problem for some time. Could this have affected the ECU?
Before I replace the additional water pump should I check out the ECU? Is there a way to reboot the ECU in some way? What do you think?
Bob
 

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Evening,

The electric water pump is the same as the turbo coolant electric pump, just different diagnostic readers have varying descriptions for faults.

For example, if u had P1340 and googled it, it would say camshaft error, but on the THP engine its misfire on cylinder 4!

Tyre pressure sensors are well known as well for being a bit dodgy, but they can be switched off using Peugeot diagnostics, not that Peugeot will do that for you bare in mind! Plenty people on these forums have the ability and the software to do such a job for some small change/case of beer.

Parking sensors...….sometimes they just get dirt in them, what happens when you put the car in reverse, does it show an error on the display? Could be a sensor or the parking ecu itself, if u find out and need parts, give me a shout as got a parking ecu and 4 sensors here. Me and a mate break 207's so have various parts at different times if we find a car that's got money to be made from it lol

Was the turbo coolant pump the only fault code on the engine ecu?

No real way to reboot the engine ecu, there is a bsi reset but the issues u have had are all very common issues with these cars and engines. Have had two 207gti's since they came out in 2007 and know them inside out, currently running 300bhp on my car, and done a lot of work on them for people locally and from further afield who have travelled to us here in Scotland. Used to do all the shows etc so know lots of owners and they have lot of trust in us.

The wing mirrors have a mind of their own sometimes, my passenger one doesn't always close when press the lock button on the key fob, so most of time I go out to car with 1 mirror closed and 1 mirror out lol looks well stupid lol
 

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Also I forgot, can u remember the misfire codes? As normally when there is 2 or more misfire codes you should check the high pressure fuel pump. Peugeot tech bulletin on their server for that.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks. I need to do some more research. Will respond.

Love the idea of your door mirrors. Sounds like a puppy dog.

Where are you located btw?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi,
Sorry for the delay. I had to speak to the mechanics involved. In answer to your queries:
  • Parking sensors – Yes the error appears when reverse is selected. I’ll try cleaning them, though this is hardly a priority. Can come back to this later and talk about the sensors you have.
  • Yes the turbo coolant pump was the only fault code on the engine ecu. The mechanic cleared all errors, then I drove the car for a few miles and the fault returned. He tells me the code was P2603.
  • The previous mechanic tells me that there were misfires on all 4 pots, but was unable (or unwilling) to provide the codes.
So where does that leave me? My daughter in law has come to the conclusion that the car has become a sink for cash. Each time she spends money it only reveals another problem that needs even more money. I don’t subscribe to this view, I think it’s a neat and nippy motor and goes well. I do though need to be reasonably confident of the final outcome before spending much more money and if possible try to do the work myself.
So I have three questions:
  • The mechanic who found the P2603 thinks it could be the wiring or the pump itself because the fault is “open circuit”. You seem very confident that it is the pump so I guess I’ll change it if I can. Before I remove it I can use my multi-tester to do a basic electrical check on the pump.
  • The message “Depollution system faulty” has re-appeared. Would this fault with the pump really cause this message? Doesn’t sound like a depollution issue.
  • You’ve said that the multiple misfire faults mean that the high pressure fuel pump should have been checked. This was not done, but I guess that as the misfire problems are no longer present means that the fuel pump is ok. Is that fair?
  • If I make these changes is there anything else to go wrong. The car has done 75k miles so the obvious thing is cambelt change. It is a 207 2009 with a 1.6l 16v engine. I take it this is the vti engine which I believe has a camchain so doesn’t need changing. Is this true?
Thanks for all your help on this. It's been so helpful..
Thanks again
Bob
 

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Hi

Unfortunately its the reason people part with their cars is the issues they get and don't want to put money into them, but lets be honest, all cars have issues and they need to be sorted and looked after.

My mate who I do the car work with has recently bought an audi a5, which for a gearbox oil and engine oil change is £300 !!!

Cause of the common issues these engines have, we learnt how to sort them and help people out, so am along your thinking in terms of the car, once issues are sorted they are brilliant affordable motors to drive.

P2603 has been pretty common over the years of looking after these cars and engines, I had it middle of last year actually, fortunately I had a spare pump that I had got off a mate once he had sold his car.

Here is some of the info from Peugeot....
CUSTOMER SYMPTOM :With or without lighting of the engine diagnostics warning lamp - In the presence of one or more of the following fault code(s) P2600, P2603
CONDITIONS IN WHICH FAULT APPEARS :
1. ORIGIN
Turbocharger cooling electric coolant pump.
N.B. : The presence of fault code(s) P2600, P2603 may or may not trigger lighting of the engine diagnostics warning lamp depending on the engine management ECU software version
2. AFTER-SALES REPAIR
Check of the turbocharger cooling electric coolant pump electrical supply.
Replacement of the turbocharger cooling electric coolant pump.
Bleeding the cooling system.
2.1. Parts required
1 Electric coolant pump (Part No. depending on vehicle definition).

There is also a check of the fuse box for fuse 21...…. but in the UK we have never seen a F21 in the fuse box!

Yeh the fault can bring up the depollution fault message on the cars display, mine didn't, but it can vary depending on the car software, a typical example of the French mechanics lol

Would hope the misfires situation were just the spark plugs etc, if other codes appear then would be tempted to be looking at high pressure fuel pump but fingers crossed its fine.

Regarding the timing...….its a very commonly asked question! Answer is there is no right or wrong answer really, so many variables effect the timing to say a chain should be done at X intervals.
With it being metal, with heat metal expands as you will know which is why its crucial the oil in the engine is always kept up at max. Seen lots of people say they have had their timing done, then 4 months down the line it brings up fault code and their timing is outwith the permitted tolerance, then they check their oil and they are running on drips!

I could type all afternoon on timing issues, from "kits" to "oh yeh my mate has the genuine tools" to it was done 2 years ago so its all fine when they are trying to sell the car!

Engine wise I would say there are 3 main things that can creep up, apart from maybe the odd sensor failing or parts needing replaced due to high milage.
  • Timing
  • Build up on the inlet valves
  • High pressure fuel pump
These are obviously more common on higher mileage cars, but they also happen on low mileage cars.

The build up on the inlet valves is a gummy oily residue that sticks to the inlet valves, blocking the air getting into the engine, so bit like the engine has a chest infection, so requires medicine in form of walnut blasting to blast it off, you will probably see services like terraclean or hydro carbon clean claiming these work for it but it doesn't even touch the sides, a real waste of money.

The build up varies from car to car, depends on how its driven with the way the PCV system is set up on the car, but generally now a days if they not been done, would recommend it being done, really brings life back into the engine and driving experience, and better fuel economy which always helps !! On that note, would advise to run super unleaded 99RON fuel, we just use Tesco's and cars run brilliantly on them !

Will try attach some pics from my mobile...…..
 

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Pics of clean and dirty inlet valves, timing locked and set properly, then tuning outwith tolerance.


Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

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If not sourced a replacement pump then here is one....

Exactly same one I have on my car.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for all your input. I'll get on ebay tomorrow. and replace the water pump. I might as well, there's no sport and the pub is shut and the grandkids don't come round. Will let you know how I get on. Stay safe.
 

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you might need to delete the code once its been replaced the part, will lose some coolant obviously as well, might be handy to change it or can just top up the system and bleed it.

or on the other hand it will say oh everything is find, I wont show the message on the dash, differs from one car to the next on these things so annoying !
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi,
I decided to get a mate of mine to scan the car again, I was on my way to buy food at the time........
The scan showed up P0087 Fuel Rail Pressure too low as well as the P2603 water pump error. This is pretty much what you forecast. You really know what your talking about or this is witchcraft hehe.

Problem is nobody seems to be able to supply a High Pressure Fuel Pump that I can find. Also it appears to cost about £500. I am talking to a company that sells 2nd hand parts.
Is it worth checking fuel lines or filters or anything else?
Could it be a fuel pressure sensor problem?
The car is running fine, it does not feel like there is a problem, so is there any rush to change the pump?
My mate tells me that an Engine Light on the dash is an MOT fail. Will P0087 put the Engine Light on?
Though the 6 month extension announced by DVLA makes this less pressing.

Again in view of the COVID situation how pressing is the P2603? If you accelerate gently I guess the turbo won't engage and won't need cooling. Is that true?

Sorry to ask so many questions. Thanks again.
Bob
 

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Hi
Yeh with the P0087, normally does suggest HPFP, same as with when you had the misfires before.
Annoyingly, BMW who have basically the same engine in the Mini Cooper S, they decided certainly in the USA, to put 100k mileage warranty on that part, Peugeot are not as forthcoming shall we say lol

Yeh they aint cheap, but there is always ways and means if know where to look, we found a supplier of genuine parts selling them for £320, my mate uses one on his 380bhp 207 and fitted several others without problems.
On ebay there is a company who offer to repair then, but its an oil excess valve spring in the pump that fails, so don't know how they can fix that, but am going to speak to them an enquire, as would help people out and is cheaper than the £320.

For P0087 should be looking at the pressure of the HPFP on idle, should be around 5 bar, then if that's fine to check the face of the pump that is fitted into the engine at the inlet camshaft (they call it the driving dog), then its the measurement of the oil excess spring valve I mentioned, which needs to under 27mm.

There are things like the fuel rail sensor to check but very rarely do they go and they also a pain to get too !!

Generally car will run fine, might use a bit more fuel than normal, and can put the EML light on in some but not all cases (bloody French!!)

Regading the turbo coolant pump, I wouldn't say its a must do in the next few days, especially with not being able to drive that far under the current restrictions. What it does is permits cooling of the turbocharger to prevent the formation of oil coke on the turbocharger bearings. It uses the ecu information on the coolant and turbo temps to kick in and out upto 1500rpm when driving, then will sometimes remain on after car has been turned off to help protect the turbo if very very hot.

So it wont effect the performance of the turbo in the short term, if left for long long period and lots of miles on the road it would but not really noticeable imho. But even if it doesn't work, we still have the cooling feed to the turbo anyway, this pump is an additional safety measure basically.

TBH any fault code can bring on an EML, just depends how French it wants to be to put the EML on or not!

Never a problem to answer your questions if I can help and know what answers!

Cheers
Andy
 
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