[clicon357_1556]

Evening,

206, 1.4i petrol, year 2000.

Car not well running lumpy, no guts, struggling up hills, stalling etc. BiL kept thinking coil pack. Put 4 spare plugs into the coil pack and held against the rocker, spark from each when I turned it over.

PP/Diagbox didn't bring anything up that I could see initially.

Back on the web and grasping at straws I got a new crank case sensor. Unplugged the lead and pushed to one side. Try as I might I couldn't get the T30 headed bolt to budge. Awkward place and I think I've rounded the Torx splines off. Got the hump and went to put the plug back in and be done with it. The plug has a red and green wire and the red had broken off right where it enters the plug. It's similar construction to this one below. Wires pass through the hinge down flap, through the square grommet and get crimped on.



Managed to get the plug apart, to unmake the crimps and solder on new wires. All heatshrunk over and looking pretty factory.

Ran the car. It's much better but I'd say missing on one cylinder.

Ran PP again:

Can this really be the third coil pack that's gone down?

Sagem original coil pack, replaced with a Cambiare

Now a Bosch coil pack with Bosch plugs.

Cheers

 

[Mr Lee]

There was a wiring modification done / TSB on these early 206 that involved soldering in a condenser to the coil pack connector.

I remember the main dealer carried it out to my 2003 built TU3 powered 206 on one of its many warranty repair visits 🤣

I no longer have any information - It would be on the 206info exchange forum if it returns / someone pays the hosting bill as its about dead.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Wow, that was quick! Yes, I did try 206info but it appears dead.

Any ideas how the mod works?

To the Google! Cheers.

 

[clicon357_1556]

After some Googling I found some seemingly relevant info on page 2 here:

Another Peugeot 206 with idle problems TU3JP (KFW)

 

[clicon357_1556]

Just ordered a suppressor on ebay, eBay number 333131955081, Peugeot part number 6555K9.

Certainly on one of the coil packs (the Sagem one?), pin 4 is numbered.

A bit lost as to how the mod came about in the first place, was it when non factory parts got fitted?

Cheers

 

[Ian M Davis]

Just ordered a suppressor on ebay, eBay number 333131955081, Peugeot part number 6555K9.

Certainly on one of the coil packs (the Sagem one?), pin 4 is numbered.

A bit lost as to how the mod came about in the first place, was it when non factory parts got fitted?

Cheers

I am an electronic engineer and I have had an interest in ignition coils since my undergraduate days and your problem intrigued me. Pin 4 of the coil pack connects directly to the engine fuse box and the usual purpose of a capacitor in this position is to suppress spikes from the ignition system getting into the rest of the cars wiring. I worked part time in a car radio shop and we always had to put a suppression capacitor of about 2.5 µF on ignition coils.

I had a look at the wiring diagram for your engine and it does show a capacitor connected from pin 4 to earth. However, on the later full MUX version (post circa 2002) the capacitor is not shown. The later MUX version also uses phase sensing in the coil pack instead of a camshaft sensor.

My concern is adding this suppression capacitor will not fix your coil failure problem. The article you linked to mentions a specific make of coil that had a problem. How old are your spark plugs? Just because you are getting a spark out of them doesn’t mean they are in good condition. Bad spark plugs can damage the coil.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Hello, the spark plugs are brand new, Bosch make.

Out of interest I ran PP2000 with both the Cambiare and then Bosch/Bougicord coil pack in. Same result on both:

Something I can't quite get me my head round is that above, it's saying there's an issue with Coil 1 & Coil 2. Does Coil 1 equate to plug No.1?

What I have done, disturbed if you like is the wiring harness that goes to the injectors. I wonder if I should revisit there and look if something is broken.

 

[Ian M Davis]

I have attached an injection diagram for a TU3JP engine used on a 2000 Peugeot 206. There are several variations so it may not match your car entirely but the ignition coil arrangement seems to be standard. I think it's the same as the diagram you posted but it's an official Peugeot diagram which I find easier to follow.

The coil pack is shown in the bottom right corner (1135). It has two coils and is known as a "wasted spark system". One coil fires cylinders 1 and 4 and the other coil 2 and 3. You will see that there is a capacitor connected to an unnumbered pin on the coil's connector. This connects internally to pin 4 and I suspected it was added later. As I said it is a suppression capacitor that stops spikes getting into the wiring. There is a chance that without it the spikes could cause interference in the engine ECU resulting in a misfire.

If you look at the connector on the coil pack (1135) you will see pins 1 and 2 connect to the engine ECU (item 1320). These are the control lines for coil 1 and 2 respectively. Your fault description relates to these lines. The other line of interest goes to Pin 4 and a relay box (1304). This is the main power line to the coil and should be on all the time the ignition is on. It is possible that problem lies with with the connection to pin 4. If you have multimeter what you could do is:
(i) disconnect the coil pack
(ii) turn the ignition ON
(ii) Measure the voltage at pin 4 of the connector - I expect full battery voltage.

There is also a slight chance that without the suppression capacitor the relay contacts of the relay in 1304 will get burnt. The wiring diagram shows that the same relay powers the injectors.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Thanks did a few checks / tests tonight.

Battery voltage at rest around 12.6V. Turn the ignition on and I get the same on pin 4 of the coil pack connector. This with the plug to the coil pack removed.

BUT...you turn the ignition on (not starting the car though), relay under the bsi clicks and the meter shows 12.6V on pin 4 shows 12.6V. a few seconds later the relay clicks off and the meter reading drops to zero.

The wire to pin 4 is chaffed through but I get 12.6V to the pin.

It'd be good to be able to get one of these plugs. All that's written on it is "PBT-GF20". Be good to get a proper crimp connector to go on pin 3 (which connects inside the coil pack to pin 4).

The loose black wire is from the suppressor I fitted to the coil pack mounting stud. I tried touching it on the visible, chaffed wire with the engine running - made no difference.

The double relay is mounted directly under the bsi. It's a 240107. All the contacts look clean. I might order one.

I'd like to fit the suppressor before I fit the new coil pack.

 

[Ian M Davis]

I

Thanks did a few checks / tests tonight.

Battery voltage at rest around 12.6V. Turn the ignition on and I get the same on pin 4 of the coil pack connector. This with the plug to the coil pack removed.

BUT...you turn the ignition on (not starting the car though), relay under the bsi clicks and the meter shows 12.6V on pin 4 shows 12.6V. a few seconds later the relay clicks off and the meter reading drops to zero.

The double relay is mounted directly under the bsi. It's a 240107. All the contacts look clean. I might order one.

I'd like to fit the suppressor before I fit the new coil pack.

It sounds like the engine ECU is switching off the relay for some reason. With that relay off the injectors and coil will not work. I need to try and work out why this is happening.

If the relay contacts look okay I suspect relay is okay. One thing you could check to confirm this is measure the voltage between pin 12 and 7 of the relays connector with the ignition ON. If possible the best thing is to have everything connected and push the meter probes in the back of the connector. If there is still 12V when the relay clicks off then there is a fault with the relay otherwise it's probably okay.

It was interesting to see position 3 of the coil connector is not populated. My diagrams show the suppressor connected there. I think this confirms Peugeot modified the design so I agree you should connect the suppressor to pin 4.

Getting replacement connectors is always a challenge. There is a huge range and even when you know the manufacture it is hard to find your particular connector. If you do a search for automotive connectors on AliExpress you may find something. They do have kits of assorted replacement pins - For example https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...vid=202211071327206186114144320880006681629_6

 

[Ian M Davis]

I was just looking at the immobiliser circuit on your car and I think there is a fair chance the immobiliser is turn off the relay. Have you done anything with your key recently such as changing the key case?

 

[clicon357_1556]

Not done anything with the keys recently.

It came with a plain key when SWMBO bought it 10 years ago. I added a Hawk central locking kit a few years back, has a separate fob. A couple of years back I had a local key place cut and clone/program a second key but that lives in the house.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Should I not perhaps plug the connector back into the coil pack and measure the voltage on pin 4 with the car running?

 

[Ian M Davis]

Should I not perhaps plug the connector back into the coil pack and measure the voltage on pin 4 with the car running?

You could try. Perhaps the ECU turns the power off after a few seconds if the car isn't started.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Well I've managed to find and order a new plug. It would appear to be the correct one and has the important fourth pin missing from mine.

To recap then I have an allegedly near new Bougicord coil pack to go on. Just waiting for this plug and the double relay.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Evening, fired the car up tonight just to check and with the engine running I get a constant 14V on pin 4 of the coil pack.

 

[clicon357_1556]

That's rather annoying! This is the new coil pack (black) plug I bought:

GENUINE PEUGEOT citroen wiring block connector repair kit 6529fj | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for GENUINE PEUGEOT citroen wiring block connector repair kit 6529fj at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

It fits the coil pack fine.

However I only really took notice of picture No.4 in the add. I thought it showed 4 contacts within the plug. Looking closer at the other pictures and picture No.1 shows only 3 contacts though more difficult to see.

I'd hoped there was a contact and 4th wire to pin 3 of the plug to take the suppressor to.

No worries, I'm going to cut the old plug off and solder the new one to the existing loom. I'll tee off to the suppressor. Everything will be heat shrunk and tidy.

Only then will I fit the new coil pack.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Last night I lopped off the old coil pack connector and soldered / heat-shrunk on the new connector, at the same time splicing in the suppressor which I earthed at the coil pack stud. (So now pins 3&4 are connected to earth via the suppressor).

I then fitted the new Bougicord coil pack. Brass connections inside look pristine so believe the seller's word it was fitted/removed on his car when his fault was found to be something else.

For good measure I changed the 15-pin double pole relay that's bolted to the underside of the BSI.

I then drove the car. To me it seemed less lumpy and smoother though not perfect. It stalled once but that could have been me as I rarely drive it and have anyway a partially numb left foot!

I came back home and ran PP on it. No injector faults came up. A couple of faults did show to do with the BSI & the "harness". I'm that inept that I couldn't remember how to screen print from XP.

Maybe because I disturbed the loom when I flipped the BSI over to change the relay?

As an excuse to be driven to the pub I got SWMBO to take the car for a test run. It was an absolute dog, worse as it's been, stalling as soon as the revs dropped at junctions etc.

I apologised & told her I was at the point of giving up on it and went for a few beers! She drove home, presumably it was as bad (I later walked back).

I'll re-run PP later and post the results.

 

[Ian M Davis]

Last night I lopped off the old coil pack connector and soldered / heat-shrunk on the new connector, at the same time splicing in the suppressor which I earthed at the coil pack stud. (So now pins 3&4 are connected to earth via the suppressor).


Maybe because I disturbed the loom when I flipped the BSI over to change the relay?

I don't think the BSI does much in your car and I doubt it is related to your engine problem. If there are no timing errors I wonder if you have something as simple as a blocked fuel filter. I don't if your car has a fuel filter but f it does it is probably near the pump under the back seat.

One other thing you should be aware of is that on the later MUX version of the 206 they used a phase detector on pin 3 of the coil. Is there any chance your coil pack is for a later model?

It would be helpful if we can confirm your exact engine type. If you PM me your VIN I should be able to get the basic details from Servicebox.

 

[clicon357_1556]

Morning, yes it does have a fuel filter roughly where you say and I have changed this. It was an aftermarket one. A bit of a pig but not too bad done on the BiL's ramp. One though I had was the fuel pump itself? I'm also assuming if I took that out I could see into the tank and whether there was any debris in there? If mucky then clean it out and fit another new filter.

On another forum one guy keeps on about checking for good earth points i.e they're all clean etc. Similarly, in the loom he reckons there's lots of brass crimps on feeds and earths, that corrode and are best redone and soldered.

I'll PM you shortly, thanks for doing this.