Peugeot Planet PP2000 question.

I have checked the fuses what doesn’t seem problems there. I will start make diagnoses wit
h the voltmeter on the wires to the ECU according to the diagrams I pulled from the internet (see picture), and see if there is no faulty wires. I also heard about people having problems with the loom and breaking points in a lower position of the loom behind the engine block on the bottom part. I’m not sure if that counts for me, because my ECU is on the right side of the car and I think it has different route than the normal 206 loom. But I wanted to make sure if the key doesn’t lock the ECU and doesn’t give readings to the PP2000.

Today I did a further inspection on shorts and wires on my car, I figured that on two fuses who are located on the BSI have shorts. Its fuse 20 and 21 as shown on the picture. The two fuses are responsible for brake lights. I’m not sure is this fault comes from the BSI itself or there is a short somewhere down the trail. Maybe this is the cause that the BSI is malfunctioning now, and doesn’t wakeup the engine ECU (its kinds strange, because in PP2000 the BSI didn’t gave any faults). I have a Haynes manual, but it doesn’t show much of wire diagrams to and around the BSI. Its hard now to figure out what wire are coming and going from the BSI to the brake lights. Does anybody know a link are reference where I see the BSI diagrams and connectors etc.??
Maybe a thing to know... when unpluged the fuses, the car still didnt start.

Hendrik2023 said:

Today I did a further inspection on shorts and wires on my car, I figured that on two fuses who are located on the BSI have shorts. Its fuse 20 and 21 as shown on the picture. The two fuses are responsible for brake lights. I’m not sure is this fault comes from the BSI itself or there is a short somewhere down the trail. Maybe this is the cause that the BSI is malfunctioning now, and doesn’t wakeup the engine ECU (its kinds strange, because in PP2000 the BSI didn’t gave any faults). I have a Haynes manual, but it doesn’t show much of wire diagrams to and around the BSI. Its hard now to figure out what wire are coming and going from the BSI to the brake lights. Does anybody know a link are reference where I see the BSI diagrams and connectors etc.??
Maybe a thing to know... when unpluged the fuses, the car still didnt start.

View attachment 106052

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When you say the you have a short circuit at the fuses do you mean they are both blown? I had a look at the wiring diagrams for the 206 MUX and it is a bit surprising both brake light fuses are blown. They are separate circuits. The most likely way this would happen is if the cable to the back of the car was damaged. Are there any problems with the tail lights. I doubt this is related to your ECU problem.

I have attached two diagrams for your car. The first is the synopsis for the injection. The second shows the connection between the engine fuse box and the ECU. When you turn the ignition on the engine ECU closes a relay (master relay) in the Engine fuse box. This relay then provides the main power supply to the ECU. I have known this relay to fail and if that happens it quite likely that PP2000 will not be able to communicate with the ECU.

You need to do some voltage measurement at the engine fuse box. You need to find the black 16 pin plug and push the red probe in the back of pin 13 and the black probe needs to touch an unpainted part of the car body. When the ignition is OFF you should read 12V and when the ignition is ON you should read 0V. It would be worth repeating the test at pin 8. It should be 0V with the ignition OFF and 12V with the ignition ON.

A couple of things from you diagnostic results:
(i) The car can have up to 5 keys. The synchronisation tell you the remote buttons have been pressed on one of the five key recently. No for all five is normal.
(ii) Do you still have a Peugeot radio?

One final question does the car crank? The starter motor is not connected to the ECU so the car should still crank.

Ian M Davis said:

When you say the you have a short circuit at the fuses do you mean they are both blown? I had a look at the wiring diagrams for the 206 MUX and it is a bit surprising both brake light fuses are blown. They are separate circuits. The most likely way this would happen is if the cable to the back of the car was damaged. Are there any problems with the tail lights. I doubt this is related to your ECU problem.

I have attached two diagrams for your car. The first is the synopsis for the injection. The second shows the connection between the engine fuse box and the ECU. When you turn the ignition on the engine ECU closes a relay (master relay) in the Engine fuse box. This relay then provides the main power supply to the ECU. I have known this relay to fail and if that happens it quite likely that PP2000 will not be able to communicate with the ECU.

You need to do some voltage measurement at the engine fuse box. You need to find the black 16 pin plug and push the red probe in the back of pin 13 and the black probe needs to touch an unpainted part of the car body. When the ignition is OFF you should read 12V and when the ignition is ON you should read 0V. It would be worth repeating the test at pin 8. It should be 0V with the ignition OFF and 12V with the ignition ON.

A couple of things from you diagnostic results:
(i) The car can have up to 5 keys. The synchronisation tell you the remote buttons have been pressed on one of the five key recently. No for all five is normal.
(ii) Do you still have a Peugeot radio?

One final question does the car crank? The starter motor is not connected to the ECU so the car should still crank.

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Hello Ian,

Thanks for looking with me to this problem.

Right now.. I unplugged the wires from the BSI and looked for physical burns or damage on it.( it doesn’t seem like it got real damaged. I didn’t looked inside. Monday I will hook it back in the car again and start continue to the wires and voltages.

The fuses of the brakes 21 and 20 were not blown, I was just measuring the voltage on them.. and it seemed they were grounded when measuring them, while the other fusses one the board had voltage on them. I think it was my misinterpretation of the relay.. I think it will show voltage when I push the break switch of course..(my fault of interpretation) I think for those two fuses.

As answering your questions.. 1* yes.. the car cranks around and for the rest I cant see any wrongs on the car… 2* The original radio I took out on the moment I bought the car years back to replace it with a aftermarket radio (that’s why PP2000 doesnt shows the radio).

On Monday I’m going to get on with the car and hook the BSI back into the car and start measuring more wires as you suggested on the fuse box (now I have a diagram.. thanks for that!). Today I got also a hand on the software Autodata 3.45, but again this software only shows the numbers on the wires as plugs and not the wires as colors so. In this way I have to start first every time at the base to figure out what goes where, before excluding (but I have the time)..

Also what I noticed.. is when the car was starting before this all happened.. On switching the contact to on, I could always hear the fuel pump make a bzzzzz sound to pump the fuel to the engine. It must be the ECU what is not working now, that it doesn’t give the command to the pump now. (anyway.. its just a little detail).

I will start continue the search Monday again.. and take your points with it.

Greetings

The only time there will be any voltage at fuse 20 and 21 is when the ignition is ON and the brake pedal is pushed. I have attached a wiring diagram for the brake light switch. The power comes from the engine fuse box (EM34) to the ignition switch (CA00) then to the brake pedal switch and finally to the BSI. The BSI is doing two things: (i) acting as a simple fuse holder and (ii) monitoring the brake switch.

I have also attached a wiring diagram for the fuel pump. It gets its power from fuse 2 in the engine fuse box. I have also attached a wiring diagram of the engine fuse box (BM34). If you study the diagram for BM34 you will see F2 connects to the contacts of relay R2. Relay R2 needs the relay R1 (often called the master relay) to operate before it can close its contact. The engine fuse box voltage tests I suggested earlier relate to relay R1.

The way Peugeot have arranged the 206 MUX wiring diagrams is to provide a synopsis diagram and then you have to click on the box you want more details about. Unlike most other Peugeot models there are no overall wiring diagram (principle diagram). I am happy to be involved and provide more diagrams if you need them but if you want access to the 206 MUX diagrams you can download Peugeot Servicebox see #22 of Service Box no longer free?

Edit
You are right about the wire colours. On the early 206 Peugeot did give the wire colours but on their later models they rarely give the colours. The numbers are meant to be on the wires but I have had trouble finding them on many occasions.

One other question. I don't see ABS brakes listed in the PP2000 diagnostics so I guess your car doesn't have ABS. Is that correct?

Thats kinda strange yes.. It has ABS.


I quess here the problems starts...

Contact on... PIN 1, 14, 20 have 12 volts. Pin 26 has 22 volt. (pictures).

I assume the pins as the diagram references the cavity numbers of the blue plug!?






Im not sure about PIN 26 why the 22 volts is there. PIN 13 is a empty pin.

Ian M Davis said:

I have attached two diagrams for your car. The first is the synopsis for the injection. The second shows the connection between the engine fuse box and the ECU. When you turn the ignition on the engine ECU closes a relay (master relay) in the Engine fuse box. This relay then provides the main power supply to the ECU. I have known this relay to fail and if that happens it quite likely that PP2000 will not be able to communicate with the ECU.

You need to do some voltage measurement at the engine fuse box. You need to find the black 16 pin plug and push the red probe in the back of pin 13 and the black probe needs to touch an unpainted part of the car body. When the ignition is OFF you should read 12V and when the ignition is ON you should read 0V. It would be worth repeating the test at pin 8. It should be 0V with the ignition OFF and 12V with the ignition ON.

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PIN 13 has a constant 12 volt, no matter if i switch the key on or off.
PIN 8 doesn’t get any voltage at all, no matter if I switch the key on or off.

Engine Fuse Box
The fuse box measurements are very informative. The engine ECU is not turning the master relay ON which is a bit disturbing and probably means it not getting any power at all (let's hope it's just that).

Edit
In case you haven't realised the voltage you were checking at pin 8 of the black plug is one of the ECU connections you mentioned in #3. It connects to pin A4 of ECU connector 32V NR (32 pin black plug your plug C). I have asked you to check the other 12V connection to the ECU in Next Step below.

ABS
Most of the ABS measurements makes sense except Pin 26 is the earth connection. It should read 0V. It connects to a stud/bolt (MC10) near the front left headlight.
Pin 13 is not used.

We will need to check the front right sensor at some stage. You can do this by measuring the resistance (Ω Ohms scale) between each pair of pins at the blue plug. I would check all four pairs.
The sensor connections are:
Front right sensor Pin 5 and 6
Rear right sensor Pin 11 and 12
Front Left sensor pins 8 and 9
Rear left sensor pins 3 and 2

The reason why the ABS may not have appeared in the PP2000 Global Scan is it may no longer be configured in the BSI. I have attached an example of a PP2000 206 MUX BSI - Engine Compartment configuration page. You should see at the top of the page the brakes are set to ABS MUX. You need to have the same setting. When there is a power failure or the battery disconnected while the BSI is awake it can corrupt some BSI settings.

Next Step
Find the green 16 pin connector on the fuse box and measure the voltage at pin 12 with the ignition ON. If there is no voltage check fuse 4.

Check earth point MC10. It is the earth point for both the ABS and engine fuse box. That 22V reading was extremely strange. I wonder if it was milliVolts but I could see mV on your meter's display. However, if both probes were making a good contact I would be very surprised if the meter read anything other than 0V. It should be the same as touching both probes together. You may need to remove the headlight to get to MC10. You should also check earth MC11 which may require removing the other headlight. I have attached location diagrams for both earth points.

If none of this helps. I suggest you unplug the ECU and check for water in the connectors. Before you do that make sure the BSI asleep by:
(i) Open the bonnet
(ii) Turn everything off remove the keys and shut (don't lock) the doors. Normally it is good practice to leave the drivers window open but as the car is in Economy Mode the only way you may be able to do that is with an actuator test using PP2000.
(iii) Wait at least 3 minutes and then disconnect the battery
(iv) You can now remove/unplug the ECU.

Hendrik2023 said:

I have to do this again... Im almost sure I measured 12 volts on (48V MR) PIN: B4. But i'll check again.
So as I understands...The 32V NR (plug C) Pin A4 is returning 12 volts to PIN 8 on the 16N NR.. what goes to the relay R1 on the BM34?
This means the ECU is toast?

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Relay R1 is the master relay as soon as the ignition is turned on R1 should close. One side of R1 coil connects to the 12 Volt rail in the fuse box. The other side connects to the ECU. When the ignition is turned on the ECU would switch the coil to earth. Your test show that this is not happening. If R1 doesn't close the ECU will be missing one of its power supplies and the fuel pump will not work.

You may be right about the ECU being toast. However, ECUs are remarkably reliable. The usual failure mode is water ingress. The ECU has two earth points and the both need to make perfect contact. One is MC11 which is under the right headlight. The main earth is MM01 which bolts to the engine I have known these to break off. I have attached a location diagram.

One other thing about earths a small resistance e.g. 0.1 Ω is very bad. I am a bit concerned about your 20mV measurement on the ABS. Normally when you join two meter probes you read 0V. When you get stray reading on a few millivolts it can mean there is not a proper connection.