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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello good people, hope that you can help me, before I go with pricey option of licensed dealer and service.

I bought recently pretty decent and in great condition 407 with only 150.000km on the clock (confirmed by dealership). its 100KW version

Symptoms: every 450-500km car starts jerking extremely while driving, so holding gas pedal on constant it will start slowing down easily for 2 or 3 seconds and then extreme kick forward, lucily I drove I bunch of mailfunctiong cars during my lifetime so I can handle it but I think undividable is the term when it comes how it is behaving . (I noticed it has fan ruining intermittent white smoke and increased fuel consumption). No errors on the dash, no beeping no nothing, no engine management light. After couple of turn on turn off it resets and car runs like a charm. Also idle is moving around a bit for 100RPM up and down.


So far it happened twice during driving in the city, so I wasnt able to run it in 4th gear for a while so I just tried keeping revs around 3k. Last time I was on the open road and drove it like that for 20km and until I powered it on and off couple of times it seemed like it didn’t planed on going away.

Previous time right after the jerking I it got hooked on lexia and it didn’t show anything.

I have been googling this error for about a month now and can’t find anything conclusive, 2 people seemed to resolve the issue by finding broke vacuum pipes, I'll have them respected and replaced probably since it is the best guess. And it showed error about misfire in 5th cylinder I'll recheck I think it was P1351 I'll probably replace heaters that have been told to me (I was using ELM not lexia).

I am currently working on getting my laptop operational and getting car laptop charger and deep diving into diagnostics with it while it is happening.


If anyone has any idea or advice, or have had similar issue please share and save my love toward pugs

Thank you
 

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I once had something similar.

I found out that it seemed that the IC bypass throttle switching failed, probably due to one failed electrovalve? (two valves, one for each throttle).

I didn't bother to buy a new valve, but I did put a small ball-bearing ball into both of the rubber pipe pieces that goes into each of the two throttle actuators (to block the vacum/air supply to the actuators).

This way the IC bypass was deactivated and the car was driveable again. It still regenerates fine even though the air always pass through the IC.

The symptoms before the fix was that only full throttle would keep the car alive, any part-throttle it would completly die, probably as both throttles was closed at the same time.

Hope your fault is something as easy to fix as mine :)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the fast response! How did you diagnose that, was it showing something on diagnostics, and it was happening during regeneration?

Thank you very much :)
 

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It was just logical thinking, engine completely died without any sign of error codes in PP2000..

At least that somehow ruled out sensor fault etc. and I started thinking if the engine could be strangled for air... and first thing I tried was blocking those vacum hoses.

Yes, it was only happening during regeneration.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Jesus, explaining this to mechanic is nearly impossible (I had one guy wanting to open the engine to diagnose, and clean the injectors, and on my question why it happens on such regular intervals he said, then there is something wrong
) And I Hate it since I do not have the time to fiddle with this. It wasn't so bad in past times since I had a lot of highway driving so it would only jerk for lets say 30 sec.

Now today it happened. I stopped and pulled off bottom vacuum pipe (btw when I finally got a mechanic that would take a look that vacuum hose was really lose so we fixed that but problem is still there) and it was worse more jerking. Now I reconnected bottom disconnected top one (not sure which is cold which is hot air) (hear something like vacuum gurgle) and it ran fine no jerking, but I noticed that I have less boost over 2500RPM like the car lost most of it power over those revs. I drove it a bit like that returned the pipe and car was running as it should again (since the regen finished).
Not sure if this makes any diagnostic sense, I am still trying to understand when is which opened and when it should be and I want to fix it and it seems that only way to do it is by my self.
 

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Yes you certainly need to block the hoses when you disconnect them. I used a suitable sized ballbearing ball into each of the hose-ends before I put them back in place onto the actuators, so everything still looks like it is connected and operating.

Leaving a hose-end loose and unconnected will reduce vacum in the system and this will influence on the turbo control also.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Yes you certainly need to block the hoses when you disconnect them. I used a suitable sized ballbearing ball into each of the hose-ends before I put them back in place onto the actuators, so everything still looks like it is connected and operating.

Leaving a hose-end loose and unconnected will reduce vacum in the system and this will influence on the turbo control also.
When you take off the vacuum pipe you need to stop it leaking as this will reduce the vacuum to everything else including turbo
ou that makes sense, and explains the vacuum sound and no boost so just to clip it when its taken off and that will do (which is what B1ack__Mi16 already suggested). I want to get this fixed so bad. hm do you folks know for any dangers for running with those pipes closed since


So I typed this message up to here and took off, couldn't sit since rain stopped, so parking lot mechanizing started.

I took of both hoses from the top, visual inspection nothing took a straw and tried to blow/suck (that came out wrong) top one good, bottom one hissing like crazy. But no way to see where i tried covering whole hose with my hand to see if the hissing change the sound but no luck. I saw somewhere that that can be inspected by smoke, and I hate cigarettes but fuck it, blow smoke into that hose and found it. small bottom hose, check the straw


you lil motherfucker









Only thing that is working on Sunday and that is selling hoses is open market so I went thru it with a straw that fits perfectly to find the right size pipe.

I hope this silicone gasoline pipe will do the job and hope that this will close the subject

PS Peugeot 407 2,0 HDI trza!? (Strana 2) / Peugeot / Citroen dijagnostika / elprog forum post #28 this seems to be known issue on them

Thank you folks again
 

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similar problem!!

Think this is my problem too; my 407 2005 2 litre auto saloon, 139K, becomes v shaky with extreme loss of power and inability to hold revs every now and again - no predicting it & no way of reproducing it; maybe it is a FAP regen thing??

But I don't think my engine is the same as the one in these photos; any further hints please? No faults on screen -ever- no faults on 3 reads at Peugeot [=£300 thank you very much]

As I say i think i'd .,ike to try blocking this sensor pipe, but where the £$%^ is it??!!

thanks in advance for any comments!
martyn
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I ll make video tutorial tomorrow if I make it. Well is the vin starting with RHR it should have same engine if it has FAP. So issue should occur around every 300-400km in the city and 500-700km if just if open road/ highway (also taking into account the condition of the FAP)


If I do not make it see below,

marked black is the top valve and hose, under it there is another one exactly the same. and I plugged in the straw and blew into it.(straw sticking from the bottom hose on the picture) Top one no leaks, bottom hisses like crazy.




Please note that it will have to go thru another 400km so I can tell for sure if this fixed it. If it didnt then I ll do as Mr B1ack__Mi16 says. Ball bearing in that thick hose that I rounded and fuck it
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
so this seems to be quite a common problem on the internet. I found 4 topics in Serbian and 2 in Polish and 3 in English about the issue, on different forums, and other than issue all that they have in common is that all the mechanics and official dealer have no clue about this for past 7+ years.

I have no idea about blanking the EGR didnt considered it as an option so I can't help you with that.

But I found another picture, so whoever fixed it 4 of them had the same issue with the hose, others changed either this electro valve down there (brown thingy on the picture that hoses are attached to) or vacuum valves on top of air manifold.




And I noticed engine is running much smoother now, it was running really smooth before but I didnt know it can run better, and also engine breaking is much harder now. On the downhills I was running in past months that I had to use break to help not to break speed limit, now I need to change to higher gear because its slowing down. Need another 200km until I confirm issue resolved.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
If there is an admin/mod that can place biiiiiiiig maaasiiive huuuugeee SOLVED in front of this topic subject... just did full regen, noticed the change in valve/pump/injectors sound (i stopped the car and the fan was running) and continued another 3 miles until the sound changed to even smooth almost silent :) but no change in the way engine pulls or takes throttle.

Thank you folks for pushing me in right direction with your advice-soluton, I owe you beer when I come to the island :) also I ll probably add led to the mirror heater so I know for sure when regen is done, as soon as my haynes arrives :)
 

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Well, I put a blanking plate [from Bertye on ebay] in today; but first of all, I removed the pipe between the EGR and the manifold, and cleaned out the AWFUL black greasy gunk!

Whole procedure took -say- 20 minutes; only one scraped knuckle and a bit of cursing..

It seems to run really well; I think fitting the plate might have ironed out a sort of lumpiness/faltering at 40mph too; seemed okay on first run..

Car is a 150K-on-clock 2005 2L Hdi with the super-smooth brilliant tiptronic 4-speed automatic box#, and cruises at 70ish at someting under 2,000rpm.

No change in the acceleration; still brilliant; great overtaking power; but the main thing is that I hope to have cured the aforementioned awful ''only happens every now and again with no warning, and generally when my wife is in the car with me'' juddering/pinking..

This has not shown on a 'proper' - £98 a shot- Peugeot diagnostic machine EVEN WHEN IT IS ACTUALLY DOING IT!! [have made 3 diagnostic attempts over 8 months yes three/almost £300 donated to a Peugeot garage near Aylesbury]

I will report back after a while..

My grateful thanks for all advice and hints to all involved...

#In desperation, I test drove a semi-automatic 508 [1.6L] ABSOLUTELY DREADFUL!! Awful gearchanges; lurching; a really lumpy horrible ride in what appears to be a lovely car; maybe the 'proper' 2L automatic box version is better?.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yeah, well the diagnostics will not pick it up, only maybe some expert can deduce from some live parameters that engine is out of the air (I guess he will have to monitor exhaust gasses as well) If it happens when car is regenerating (easiest way to see that is by stopping the car (without turning it off) going in front and looking if the front fan is running, if it does then the car is regenerating.

My googling and trouble got me to 3 mayor causes.

1. Hoses. I already talked about. Make sure those are tight fit on connectors, and that there are no leaks (grab straw that fits and try to blow and see if those are leaking any place).

2. Dead vacuum valve on inlet manifold see video here. There are 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFVyhrC40eY so basically those should work when you create vacuum on the one of the pipes, one of the mechanics checked it by sucking air thru the hose and checking if they move. On the video is only cleaning but you can see how to remove it. (do not try to push them with force)

3. Vacuum valve - brown thing on the image, if it is broken it will not operate vacuum as it should and it will not get necessary air





The way car behaved in my case, I hear knackering nose from the engine, like the valves working overtime (probably the high pressure pump since it changes the injectors timing), and car starts moving revs on idle for about 100-300RPM (usually after getting it out of the gear, not sure how that works with tiptronic ), and when I hold constant throttle it will go normally for a while (coupe of seconds) and then start hard deceleration, for about 2 seconds and then it would kick forward. When on open road about 2Krpm it wouldnt be so hard but in city driving it made hell. I go out fan is always running, as explained in earlier posts and thru the forum, engine needs to increase workload so it turns on all accessories. Like rear windshield heaters, mirror heaters, glow plugs, engine fan, so it would get exhaust temperature over 400C.

Hope this helps
 

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You describe exactly what I hear on my auto 407.. But, as stated above, I HAVE put a blanking plate in, hoping for a miracle cure [first 100 miles OK] but the pic and hints above all sound v likely causes too..

But -having put the plate in, as said above -I will let you know what happens over time...

VV grateful to you and everyone else who has commented and helped..
 

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407 egr blocked/ still juddering every 400 miles or so..

Putting in blanking off plate has made engine run cooler and improved mpg to 47 [2L diesel auto!!]. But still judddering/cutting out almost, every 400 miles or so.. Next; I will fit an led on drivers mirror to see when regenerating.


thabks SO much for all help
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If I had your car I would start with checking those vacuum valves, hoses and at the end switch. Also if you do not want to deal with that you can do as B1ack__Mi16 said on the first page and block vacuum pipes that lead to inlet manifold (but I think that can mess with engine breaking maybe).
Hope I helped a bit
 

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I am having the same trouble during regen, could someone please tell me do the hoses just pull off the brown valve? And looking at the photo and my car I can see 4 hoses that are connected to the valve 2 on the right and 2 on the left do I need to check all 4 ?
Thanks in advance..
 
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