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No I don't think it will work. I think the keys the locksmiths were trying to program did they same thing as this chip and I think this where the problem lies. This would have worked on the Mitsubishi but for some very odd reason it looks like the 4007 is using a more sophisticated transponder.

I think the thing to do is speak to the locksmith and say you you were told that 4007 appears to need the PCF7941 transponder and unlike the Mitsubishi it doesn't appear to work with the standard PCF7936.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
I just talked to a dealer in Melbourne and he just informed me that since I have no key I will have to get the car to a dealership they then get contact Peugeot unlock the motor (not sure what that means) then cut a new key The only problem is that this dealer is a fair distance from me so quite expensive to get the car towed, and he recommended to get the car towed to a dealer closer . I then contacted a local dealer and he had no idea about the above procedure Why is this so dam hard
 

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My experience with dealer service departments is that they have a high turnover of reception staff. Having spent the an hour or so on several occasions waiting for something at my local dealer it seemed like a hard job people were coming and going all the time.

It might help them if you told them you have a working key blade so can open the car and that you know your PIN.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
My experience with dealer service departments is that they have a high turnover of reception staff. Having spent the an hour or so on several occasions waiting for something at my local dealer it seemed like a hard job people were coming and going all the time.

It might help them if you told them you have a working key blade so can open the car and that you know your PIN.
I told the original dealer I spoke with and he just informed me t that they will still have to contact Peugeot to get the motor going
 

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I told the original dealer I spoke with and he just informed me t that they will still have to contact Peugeot to get the motor going
I am not sure what the contact Peugeot bit is about. The dealers have accounts with Peugeot so it should be no more than logging into a server. Was second dealer willing to book you in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
I am not sure what the contact Peugeot bit is about. The dealers have accounts with Peugeot so it should be no more than logging into a server. Was second dealer willing to book you in?
Ok still waiting for the second dealer to get back to me. Might get back to me before X mas :)
 

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I was just reading an interesting paper on car key transponders and UHF remote entry fobs: file:///Users/ian/Downloads/aram_verstegen.pdf

Paragraph 2.2 explains the usual method of programming keys which I am sure the locksmiths were using. However, the author added a footnote which seems to fit with what the first Peugeot dealer said about having to contact Peugeot. The footnote said "Some car makers employ immobilizer systems and transponders that are pre-configured with security settings by the licensed manufacturer and thus cannot be replaced without manufacturer involvement. This normally means only licensed resellers can order replacement keys, and must specify the vehicle chassis number". I suspect cloning keys would be still possible but it would stop someone other than a dealer providing a key if all keys were lost.

I wonder if anyone else on the forum has come across a problem like this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
I was just reading an interesting paper on car key transponders and UHF remote entry fobs: file:///Users/ian/Downloads/aram_verstegen.pdf

Paragraph 2.2 explains the usual method of programming keys which I am sure the locksmiths were using. However, the author added a footnote which seems to fit with what the first Peugeot dealer said about having to contact Peugeot. The footnote said "Some car makers employ immobilizer systems and transponders that are pre-configured with security settings by the licensed manufacturer and thus cannot be replaced without manufacturer involvement. This normally means only licensed resellers can order replacement keys, and must specify the vehicle chassis number". I suspect cloning keys would be still possible but it would stop someone other than a dealer providing a key if all keys were lost.

I wonder if anyone else on the forum has come across a problem like this.
The whole Covid lock down in Victorian Melbourne isnt happening and still no contact from the Peugeot dealer
 

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The whole Covid lock down in Victorian Melbourne isnt happening and still no contact from the Peugeot dealer
I suspect they have forgotten. I suspect all reception staff need to do is ask their head technician. I would keep pestering them. You may get a different person next time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
The whole Covid lock down in Victorian Melbourne isnt happening and still no contact from the Peugeot dealer
Hey do you have a link to the page or file you are talking about regarding talking to the dealer to have the car started
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
To sum up: an immobilizer problem may be generated by the key, the transponder coil, or even a battery or relay problem.

Maybe a silly question but could it be the battery in the the car it is turning over and I have put a 12 Volt charger on the battery for more then 24 hrs Just a thought
 

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To sum up: an immobilizer problem may be generated by the key, the transponder coil, or even a battery or relay problem.

Maybe a silly question but could it be the battery in the the car it is turning over and I have put a 12 Volt charger on the battery for more then 24 hrs Just a thought
You need a programmed transponder in the key before the BSI will unlock the engine ECU. Hence, if you think your battery was the cause of the non-start you will need the locksmith back before you can try to start the car. If you call the locksmith back it would be worth doing the beep test after he has programmed the key. If the car passes the beep test it means the BSI is recognising the key's transponder so should unlock the immobiliser.

The immobiliser usually disables the spark and fuel injection. If the engine is cranking with the starter motor normally I doubt you have a battery problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Just talked to the dealer the car has no immobiliser but the car wont start unless the darling French Peugeot people unlock the ECU which has to be dine by a dealer with their laptop plugged i into the car Only one key is available and just for the key only is 650 just for the key still have to pay for towing labour and key to be programmed Doing a lotto ticket now wish me luck :)
 

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Just talked to the dealer the car has no immobiliser but the car wont start unless the darling French Peugeot people unlock the ECU which has to be dine by a dealer with their laptop plugged i into the car Only one key is available and just for the key only is 650 just for the key still have to pay for towing labour and key to be programmed Doing a lotto ticket now wish me luck :)
Good luck. The charge doesn't surprise me. I don't remember any of my service bills at the dealer being below $1,000 often significantly more.

I am not sure why they are saying there is no immobiliser. The whole point of programming the key is for the immobiliser. Peugeot Servicebox gives a wiring diagram for the immobiliser on the 4007 diesel- see attachment. Perhaps they mean there is no seperate immobiliser. The immobiliser is built into the BSI and ECU so the diagram is not much different to the diagram RedSector gave you.
94477
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Thanks again you might be right on the above at least this dealer knew what he was on about and was willing to help Cant wait to see the $650 key hopefully its all made of gold :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Interesting read
m guessing that if I had a spare made I would have to somehow get it coded
to the immobiliser...
I wouldn't have thought key cutters could read the plip, which is
where the code is stored. The only way I know is to get a plip from
Peugeot (which can take five weeks as they come from France) and then
get your dealer to cut a key blank. They do not need coding to the
immobiliser when you get them as they already are. The dealer will
need to know the number from your key which is on a paper tag inside
the plip, to order
 

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Big thank you, Ian you have increased my working knowledge of these systems, I would never have looked this deep into them. You have supplied everything I ever wished to know about this system, most helpful ;) for my future projects.

Although I also have two working keys, so as long don't delete them out of ECU... should be fine and planning on getting full (dealer level) scan tool just in case I must play with them.
 

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Interesting read

I wouldn't have thought key cutters could read the plip, which is
where the code is stored. The only way I know is to get a plip from
Peugeot (which can take five weeks as they come from France) and then
get your dealer to cut a key blank. They do not need coding to the
immobiliser when you get them as they already are. The dealer will
need to know the number from your key which is on a paper tag inside
the plip, to order
I have no experience with the keypad immobiliser system discussed in that post. It may be what the dealer was talking about when he said your car had no immobiliser. Immobiliser systems are evolving all the time.

The bit about locksmiths not being able to read the key’s chip is not entirely correct. They have tools that can clone the key’s chip. They also have other tools that can read the car’s BSI/ECU to get the PIN. In some cases they have open the BSI or ECU to read the memory. There are also tools that can read the PIN via the OBD connector. The problem is that if locksmiths can do this car thieves can as well so there is a constant battle to make it impossible for anyone other than an authorised dealer to provide keys.
 
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