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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Grateful if anybody can help out please. We have a Peugeot 307 SW 2.0 HDI 135 with the 16V DOHC DW10BTED4 Engine. It ran great a few years ago, like lightning, then there was no turbo boost for a couple of years until we realised that during a clutch and flywheel replacement, the vacuum pipe had come off that connects to the Turbo Actuator Solenoid that controls the VNT on the Turbo. Replaced this and turbo boost restored, although it was slightly hesitant when if for instance you were travelling at 60 on the motorway and needed to overtake so stuck your foot down. It would pull then put jerked on and off a bit. Then recently it stopped working completely.
Things tried so far:
  • Turbo VNT Actuator Solenoid taken off, bench tested and found to be intermittent in operation, taken apart, cleaned out, retested on the bench and now is tight on vacuum when power off and transfers vacuum to other port when 12V DC applied (I know it will be PWM on actual car but this was good enough to test it from what I've seen on these forums).
  • Hand Vacuum Pump connected with a long hose directly to Turbo VNT Actuator Solenoid along with Vac Gauge - verified that actuator arm moves smoothly and at low vacuum levels to engage the VNT and arm moves full movement range. Then took car for run and got passenger to engage the VNT actuator while driving and turbo engaged beautifully.
  • Verified no vacuum leaks in the system by teeing a vac gauge into the supply side of the solenoids and then turning engine off and watching vacuum hold tight.
  • Connected basic fault code and diagnostics reader to car - verified no engine fault codes (it can only read engine as is pretty cheap and basic) and could watch intake MAP and MAF readings change as revved up engine. This also confirmed the turbo wasn't engaging as MAP never got above atmospheric 1 bar (100 kPa), and as above when manually applying vacuum to engage the turbo VNT even at idle, could watch the pressure rise up above 1 bar.
  • Watched the VNT Actuator Arm visually at engine startup - it doesn't move.
  • When engine is shutdown, it momentarily moves.
  • When engine is running and about 4000 rpm applied, the arm moves (seemingly to engage the turbo) which seems far too late as turbo is needed at the low rpm.
  • Checked air filter and turbo intake lines for blockages - all clear.
  • This crazy engine has 2 feeds into the intake manifold; one that bypasses the intercooler, and one that goes through the intercooler. All I can see is that the feed through the intercooler is normally open on a vacuum solenoid actuator driven 'flap' valve, and the one that goes directly to the intake manifold from the turbo is normally closed. I've no idea when it would swap these over as I'd have though it would always want intercooled turbo air into the engine - can't find any other mention of this on any forums.
  • I've checked the intake manifold supply hoses for cracks and all seems well.
  • Other forums posts have mentioned potential for CAT to be blocked up - I think this unlikely though as when you engage turbo manually by engaging VNT actuator using hand pump, it goes off like a rocket.
What I can't verify is if there are any other fault codes on any of the other modules as my diagnostic reader is basic, but if the engine ECU is clear, you'd think it would be happy and engage the turbo as it used to be. It's almost like it's in a 'limp-home' mode, but it isn't displaying the MIL or limiting revs - just not engaging the turbo!!
Any suggestions would be welcome please because I believe I've tried all the things others have suggested on these forums. If anybody was local to Huddersfield and could scan further with something more like Peugeot has to look for anything hidden / buried that would be fantastic as I'd rather not purchase another diag unit on top of the current one I have, just in case it's no better.
Only other things I can think off but can't verify is whether the 02 sensors are correct.
Really frustrating because turbo seems healthy (2006 plate with about 85k on it) - ECU just doesn't seem to want to engage it.
If anybody has similar car / engine (engine used on 407 as well and citroens and volvos) - it would be really useful if they could tell me what the VNT actuator arm does at idle when the car is started, and then when reved up. Everything I've read says it should 'pull in' the arm to engage the turbo so it's there for low revs, and only release the vacuum to remove the boost when the MAP gets too high.
At whits end - hope this all makes sense, as written before the bottle of red gets uncorked!!
Thanks to all for reading.
 

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Grateful if anybody can help out please. We have a Peugeot 307 SW 2.0 HDI 135 with the 16V DOHC DW10BTED4 Engine. It ran great a few years ago, like lightning, then there was no turbo boost for a couple of years until we realised that during a clutch and flywheel replacement, the vacuum pipe had come off that connects to the Turbo Actuator Solenoid that controls the VNT on the Turbo. Replaced this and turbo boost restored, although it was slightly hesitant when if for instance you were travelling at 60 on the motorway and needed to overtake so stuck your foot down. It would pull then put jerked on and off a bit. Then recently it stopped working completely.
Things tried so far:
  • Turbo VNT Actuator Solenoid taken off, bench tested and found to be intermittent in operation, taken apart, cleaned out, retested on the bench and now is tight on vacuum when power off and transfers vacuum to other port when 12V DC applied (I know it will be PWM on actual car but this was good enough to test it from what I've seen on these forums).
  • Hand Vacuum Pump connected with a long hose directly to Turbo VNT Actuator Solenoid along with Vac Gauge - verified that actuator arm moves smoothly and at low vacuum levels to engage the VNT and arm moves full movement range. Then took car for run and got passenger to engage the VNT actuator while driving and turbo engaged beautifully.
  • Verified no vacuum leaks in the system by teeing a vac gauge into the supply side of the solenoids and then turning engine off and watching vacuum hold tight.
  • Connected basic fault code and diagnostics reader to car - verified no engine fault codes (it can only read engine as is pretty cheap and basic) and could watch intake MAP and MAF readings change as revved up engine. This also confirmed the turbo wasn't engaging as MAP never got above atmospheric 1 bar (100 kPa), and as above when manually applying vacuum to engage the turbo VNT even at idle, could watch the pressure rise up above 1 bar.
  • Watched the VNT Actuator Arm visually at engine startup - it doesn't move.
  • When engine is shutdown, it momentarily moves.
  • When engine is running and about 4000 rpm applied, the arm moves (seemingly to engage the turbo) which seems far too late as turbo is needed at the low rpm.
  • Checked air filter and turbo intake lines for blockages - all clear.
  • This crazy engine has 2 feeds into the intake manifold; one that bypasses the intercooler, and one that goes through the intercooler. All I can see is that the feed through the intercooler is normally open on a vacuum solenoid actuator driven 'flap' valve, and the one that goes directly to the intake manifold from the turbo is normally closed. I've no idea when it would swap these over as I'd have though it would always want intercooled turbo air into the engine - can't find any other mention of this on any forums.
  • I've checked the intake manifold supply hoses for cracks and all seems well.
  • Other forums posts have mentioned potential for CAT to be blocked up - I think this unlikely though as when you engage turbo manually by engaging VNT actuator using hand pump, it goes off like a rocket.
What I can't verify is if there are any other fault codes on any of the other modules as my diagnostic reader is basic, but if the engine ECU is clear, you'd think it would be happy and engage the turbo as it used to be. It's almost like it's in a 'limp-home' mode, but it isn't displaying the MIL or limiting revs - just not engaging the turbo!!
Any suggestions would be welcome please because I believe I've tried all the things others have suggested on these forums. If anybody was local to Huddersfield and could scan further with something more like Peugeot has to look for anything hidden / buried that would be fantastic as I'd rather not purchase another diag unit on top of the current one I have, just in case it's no better.
Only other things I can think off but can't verify is whether the 02 sensors are correct.
Really frustrating because turbo seems healthy (2006 plate with about 85k on it) - ECU just doesn't seem to want to engage it.
If anybody has similar car / engine (engine used on 407 as well and citroens and volvos) - it would be really useful if they could tell me what the VNT actuator arm does at idle when the car is started, and then when reved up. Everything I've read says it should 'pull in' the arm to engage the turbo so it's there for low revs, and only release the vacuum to remove the boost when the MAP gets too high.
At whits end - hope this all makes sense, as written before the bottle of red gets uncorked!!
Thanks to all for reading.
You need to change the actuator Solenoid.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You need to change the actuator Solenoid.
Many thanks for the reply - good to get the ball rolling. Grateful if you can let me know why you still think it's the solenoid as I've had the solenoid out of the car, disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, tested, and it will open the vacuum supply through to the actuator when it gets 12V DC into it and holds it off when 0V which I believe is what it should do. Anything else I'm missing please? Many thanks
 

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Many thanks for the reply - good to get the ball rolling. Grateful if you can let me know why you still think it's the solenoid as I've had the solenoid out of the car, disassembled, cleaned, reassembled, tested, and it will open the vacuum supply through to the actuator when it gets 12V DC into it and holds it off when 0V which I believe is what it should do. Anything else I'm missing please? Many thanks
I speak from experience. Have changed several actuators on that engine.
Not the best engine to come fro PSA.
 

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First off great diagnosis write up. Pardon my ignorance but what is the VNT or more clearly what does the initials mean? Trying to get an idea of the system to try and see if I can help. I notice there is a Inlet manifold pressure sensor on this engine so maybe it is involved in the lack of boost control!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
First off great diagnosis write up. Pardon my ignorance but what is the VNT or more clearly what does the initials mean? Trying to get an idea of the system to try and see if I can help. I notice there is a Inlet manifold pressure sensor on this engine so maybe it is involved in the lack of boost control!
Hi. Many thanks for joining in too. VNT stands for Variable Nozzle Turbine, or sometimes known as VGT Variable Geometry Turbine. My understanding is that rather than have a wastegate that simply bypasses the Turbo Turbine when the boost pressure is too high, the actuator moves these variable 'vanes' that allow better control of how it boosts. I've watched some good videos on UTube that have furthered my understanding.
You're right that this engine has an Inlet Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor, plus an Inlet Manifold Temp Sensor, plus a Mass Air Flow meter for good measure. I've been able to monitor these on my cheap OBD2 plug-in reader and they appear to be working ok. If I force the Turbo into boost mode (by applying vacuum directly to the actuator which then closes the variable vanes on the turbo thus making the turbine spin faster and drive the compressor on the air side faster), the MAP sensor registers the increase in pressure correctly.
This turbo actuator does have a Turbo Actuator Position Sensor fitted to it on top, which is one of the few things I haven't managed to test as the turbo is 'conventiently' buried behind the engine and there's precious little space between it and the firewall to get your arm down. I'm just wondering that if that was stuck (it looks like it's just a push-rod that will presumably change resistance on a potentiometer) in the 'vacuum applied' position, then it might be telling the ECU that the turbo is already boosting so it doesn't then apply the right signal to the actuator solenoid to turn on and apply the vacuum. That's my next port of call tomorrow dependent on what I may learn tonight on this forum.
 

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Well it seems you know the workings Ok so lets hope that sensor is the fault for your sake. keep us informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the replies barbaren and madbadandold - I certainly will keep you informed. Also thinking about sticking an oscilloscope onto the 2 pin supply to the turbo actuator solenoid and seeing if ECU is sending it a PCM waveform or not - if it is then I'll be definitely going down the advice of barbaren and looking for new one rather than trying to repair the existing - it's just nice to be able to fix things there and then....
Any more thoughts tonight much appreciated as this has been driving me nuts for over a week - although I've learnt a lot more about turbos, sensors, control systems than I ever thought I wanted to 😂
 

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Have you checked you have right actuator and hoses connected in the right order as the operation seems inverted

As the VNT needs to fail safe normally no power/vacuum puts vanes into low boost mode.

Full vacuum then moves the vanes to full boost position then as the gas for increases with rev actuator move vanes to lower boost towards the park/fail position.



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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Have you checked you have right actuator and hoses connected in the right order as the operation seems inverted

As the VNT needs to fail safe normally no power/vacuum puts vanes into low boost mode.

Full vacuum then moves the vanes to full boost position then as the gas for increases with rev actuator move vanes to lower boost towards the park/fail position.



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Morning Windy. Thanks for the suggestion. On this 2.0 DOHC engine, unlike the models with the turbo located in front of the engine like the 1.6, the turbo actuator solenoid sits by itself just behind the engine on the LHS (as you look at the car when standing facing the engine at the bonnet end), just to the left and above the EGR cooler. The other 2 actuator solenoids fitted that sit on top of each other at the bottom left in front of the engine to the right of the AC compressor are the solenoids that control either hot or cold intake flaps - a system that seems unique to this engine.
I'm happy that the actuator solenoid has the hoses the correct way around (furthest on the end receives vacuum from the car vacuum pump circuit - next along goes to actuator - next along is the filtered 'fresh' air supply when it releases the vacuum) so sadly this is not the issue.
As you say, the VNT is failing safe and this happened when the whole vacuum supply was disconnected for a couple of years. With no vacuum applied to the turbo actuator, the vanes are in low boost mode. This is the case now all the time, apart from when the engine is turned off and you can see vacuum applied momentarily which pulls the actuator arm in, then releases it again (suggesting the solenoid does work when commanded to by ECU).
When I apply a vacuum manually using a hand vac pump directly to the turbo actuator and watch the actuator arm get pulled in (which it does smoothly and travels full distance so I don't think sticky vanes), the vanes will move to full boost position as witnessed by monitoring the Intake Manifold MAP sensor readings (plus the engine revs dip down a tad as there's more demand being placed on the engine by me manually - but it doesn't know that of course!!).
I still wonder if there are more fault codes present that I just can't read that might explain things...... Reading other forum entries I gather I need to try with a Peugeot Planet / Lexia - there's load of advice on here regarding which ones to get but I have a feeling this car may not be with us for much longer as it's turning into a money pit and I'm not really wanting another diagnostics tool if don't have any more Peugeots in the family (other car's a VW Passat and I have a proper version of VAGCOM for this which is invaluable but won't work with the Peugeot sadly!). Don't suppose you know of anybody in the Huddersfield area that would be prepared to do a quick scan in return for an investment into their original purchase price do you please?
 

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If it was disconnected before you got the car check the solinoid there are two versions one which works in reverse to the other.

2.0 110 and 2.2 used a similar bypass on the intercooler for faster warm up and to help with regens etc.

I think it was front doser valve which had the reversed valve so when you turned engine off full vacuum went to the actuator to reduce shudder and help stop the engine in the event of runaway

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If you bypass the solinoid does it boost ok (don't rev to hard as turbo will over boost)

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Windy. Yes - I put a straight through hose connector in place instead of solenoid and took it for short journey. Turbo right back there with all power from before, so I believe vacuum supply from car is good. Although it would likely have over boosted, it still didn't throw up an Engine MIL or log an error code (that I can read anyway).
Questions I'm thinking:
1) Is ECU calling turbo to boost? (I'm going to stick oscilloscope on solenoid connections and look for PWM signal to hopefully verify this)
2) If not, is it because it thinks it's already boosting because of a potential issue with the Actuator Position Sensor? (going to try and look for a changing signal voltage on the 3rd pin of the connector to see if it varies in relation to actuator arm position (gonna connect up hand vac to actuator to move it for this)) - last resort is try and remove it due to access being very tight.
3) If not this actuator position sensor at fault, why is ECU not calling for turbo boost? - Don't really know what I can do to advance this? Really need a donor car to compare against!!
Does this approach sound logical to you in lieu of a more advanced diag machine? I know my VWs but this my first Peugeot with issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I found an excellent UTube video covering my engine last night - only downside it's in French so spent a while trying to translate it!
It did have a diagram of the Cold and Hot intake paths which relates to mine so I know what you mean in your earlier post. When I looked at the cold inlet flap, it's normally closed without a vacuum; the hot one is normally open without a vacuum so this makes sense.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
A quick update for those still online.
Managed to get out this afternoon and have a bit more of a troubleshoot.
Tried to look at signal going to Turbo Actuator Solenoid using Oscilloscope - inconclusive as I could only probe on with the connector disconnected due to access issues so it might not have been representative. Couldn't see a nice neat PWM signal anyway - just a wavy line!
Traced the Turbo Actuator Position Sensor wiring to a grey 3 pin connector just near the solenoid so relatively easy to get to rather than trying to access the actual position sensor itself behind the engine. 2 of the pins had 10k resistance between them which didn't alter regardless of the position of the control arm - the 3rd pin had no connection to either of the other 2 pins at all. I would have expected from what I've researched 2 of the pins to be each end of a potentiometer (probably the 2 pins with 10k between them) with the 3rd pin being the 'swipe' arm that changes resistance in accordance with movement so I don't think this is right - although I can't rule out the cable between this grey connector and the position sensor itself being faulty - or indeed the position sensor if I attempt to get it out (plenty of patience required and stripped knuckles judging by what others have said!).
I checked for any voltage on the ECU side of this 3 pin connector and there was no voltage on any of the pins - other videos have shown a +5V supply on one pin / a 0V supply on the next / then the variable return voltage from the position sensor should feed back to the ECU down the other one so it knows what's going on.
Something isn't right I think, either wiring wise or ECU wise. Anybody got a spare position sensor, even cheap one, that they could please verify resistance of across the pins as a starter for ten??
Any thoughts anybody before it gets too late on a Sat night ??
Thanks to all for persevering with my rambling threads...
 

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A quick update for those still online.
Managed to get out this afternoon and have a bit more of a troubleshoot.
Tried to look at signal going to Turbo Actuator Solenoid using Oscilloscope - inconclusive as I could only probe on with the connector disconnected due to access issues so it might not have been representative. Couldn't see a nice neat PWM signal anyway - just a wavy line!
Traced the Turbo Actuator Position Sensor wiring to a grey 3 pin connector just near the solenoid so relatively easy to get to rather than trying to access the actual position sensor itself behind the engine. 2 of the pins had 10k resistance between them which didn't alter regardless of the position of the control arm - the 3rd pin had no connection to either of the other 2 pins at all. I would have expected from what I've researched 2 of the pins to be each end of a potentiometer (probably the 2 pins with 10k between them) with the 3rd pin being the 'swipe' arm that changes resistance in accordance with movement so I don't think this is right - although I can't rule out the cable between this grey connector and the position sensor itself being faulty - or indeed the position sensor if I attempt to get it out (plenty of patience required and stripped knuckles judging by what others have said!).
I checked for any voltage on the ECU side of this 3 pin connector and there was no voltage on any of the pins - other videos have shown a +5V supply on one pin / a 0V supply on the next / then the variable return voltage from the position sensor should feed back to the ECU down the other one so it knows what's going on.
Something isn't right I think, either wiring wise or ECU wise. Anybody got a spare position sensor, even cheap one, that they could please verify resistance of across the pins as a starter for ten??
Any thoughts anybody before it gets too late on a Sat night ??
Thanks to all for persevering with my rambling threads...
Why overthink the problem. Just change the regulator. It a £10 sparepart
 

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Changing parts ad hoc is a last ditch decision for the people who want/like to confirm the fault cause as it helps you to learn the systems and gives you no end of joy when/if you fix it and can save you money too!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Afternoon all. Just spent couple of hours wrestling the Turbo Actuator Position Sensor off top off the Actuator with virtually no clearance, spralled across the engine with arm down the back just feeling around. Patience and stubborness prevailed and I managed to get the 3 securing screws out in tact using a mini Bosch right-angle screwdriver set that was the only thing possible to use as clearance just allowed the screwdriver bit (No 2 Philips for those interested) to fit in and that was it (happy to pass on details to anyone interested as this tool will save you every now and then).
Anyway, moaning apart, got the sensor out and bench tested it. It followed my earlier report with 2 pins registering 10 kohms fixed resistance between them; the other one registering nothing - which those in the know will recognise as not the traditional way a potentiometer works!!
The 'plunger' (that monitors the actuator arm position when installed) moved freely'ish on it's spring, and occasionally I'd get a momentary measure of Mohms on the meter when exercising the plunger. No obvious means to take it apart to see the inner workings so I directed some isopropylnol contact cleaner down the tight hole the plunger goes into to try and 'wet' the track inside. Some success, in that after doing this numerous times and plunging like crazy, I now get a reading in the 2-10 kohm range - but it's very intermittent - so this part is definately faulty.
I'm not saying this will fix everything, but it's definately the place to start. Will get one ordered tomorrow, compare it out of the car to my current one, then fit it and report back on progress.
If there are buried fault codes that I can't see (which I suspect), I've no idea how to reset these to restore normal turbo operation - or indeed if I need to clear them, as ECU might suddenly recognise correct signals again.... hopefully.
Anyway, battery is out of car, so maybe this will help in clearing out DTCs - anybody know?
Would be really annoying to go to these lengths, find faulty sensor, replace it, and then be scuppered because computer says no!!!
Any thoughts in the interim gratefully received - will report back for those that still have the will to live through the week once part arrives and weather allows fitment.
Few pics below for those interested who might have gone down this route but never resolved.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Suspension Coil Automotive exterior
Finger Gas Gadget Electric blue Technology
Bicycle handlebar Finger Electric blue Bicycle part Input device
Helmet Automotive tire Hood Automotive lighting Motor vehicle
 

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Good on you. Like me I never give in. Lets hope getting the new one in does not present any new problems for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
SUCCESS - Not everybody seems to report back when they have resolved it, so I thought I'd provide an
update for anybody still following as I haven't slept properly for the last week while tackling this!!
New Actuator Position Sensor arrived today from the good people at Turbo Rebuild in Preesall. I ordered it Sunday afternoon and it arrived this morning First Class mail so brilliant service. Before wrestling in this new bad boy I thought I better test it on the bench first as access is a royal PITA (I might have mentioned this already....). It didn't behave at all like I know a potentiometer to follow; there was no change in resistance across any of the pins regardless of whether I pushed the plunger in or let it out so I suspected a dud.
I spoke to Turbo Rebuild and they asked me to send an email to their Technical people describing what I thought the issue was; somebody there replied within the hour (great customer service) and explained it was an Electronic position sensor, so works differently from a standard potentiometer one. You need to give it +5V DC on the Live and Earth pins to power up it's internal circuit, then monitor the Signal pin and with the plunger fully extended the Signal pin should deliver 0-0.9V; and with the plunger fully pushed in should deliver 4-4.5V back to the ECU. I was sceptical, but popped it on the bench anyway and gave it +5V DC from my bench PSU (for those interested, as you look at the plug on the sensor with the plunger at the bottom, order of pins is Signal - Live - Earth from Left to Right). I pushed the plunger in while monitoring the Signal pin with Multimeter and hey presto, the guy knew what he was on about. The voltage output on the Signal pin moved smoothly from 0V to 5V as I pushed in the plunger slowly.
With my faith restored that the part was good, I installed it in the car - slightly easier now as I replaced the original screws with hex head little M4 bolts and my left hand knew where it was going without me being able to see anything.
Well, perseverance and learning how your system works pays off. Car just been for a test drive and it's performance has been restored to years ago. Pulls hungrily through the early revs, and when in a high gear there's no sign of the previous hesitancy when flooring it.
Not sure if I'm allowed to advertise here (I'm sure a Moderator will shut me down if that's the case), but for anybody with this issue that hasn't tried a new Actuator Position Sensor, here's a link to the part I ordered and fitted:
Turbocharger Actuator Electronic Position Sensor For Garrett Turbo units (turborebuild.co.uk)
Great service from them even with what must have seemed my idiotic questions to their techies.
Happy to help out any others that might benefit from my fault-finding route - although if you read the thread it's pretty detailed and starts from the basics.
The 307 lives to see another day; it's my father-in-law's car mostly and he's absolutely delighted it's back to how it should be. Might notice some better fuel economy too - who knows.
Take care all - and thanks for the advice along the way.
 
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