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Discussion Starter #1
Hi. I was planning to fix a Peg 307 for my sister.
Bought the car as it is, faultcode was only Camshaft sensor and rough enginge behaviour.
Ordered one and replaced it before I was trying to go on with fault code reading.
The code for the sensor is gone now, and it does not give any other code.
I don't have this PP2000, but an DS150e reader.
The car have the following symptoms.
It always starts, and it idles without any problem.
If I rev it from 2000rpm- it does not have any problems, I can rev it f'ex 2400rpm for a couple of minutes and let go of the gaspedal, still going fine on idle.
But if I put it between the range of 1000-1800rpm, I can count to 4 and the triangle EPS light in the instrument panel pops up with a "Ping", and then I can count to 4 again and the engine lamp turns on and the car seems to go on 3 cyl, or turns down the ignition timing extremly.
If I turn it off and start it again, it goes normal on idle and from 2000rpm-
The only faultcodes it gives is P0300, probably due to the strange "Mode" the engine goes into, and of course the nice orange message of "Anti Polution".
The coilpack seems to be fine since it is alert from idle and up, no misfiring or anything noticable.
I checked all connectors I can find in the engine bay, boxes etc, seems shiny and fine, no green stuff anywhere.
Checked injectors, all 4 has nice splitted streams.
I checked live readings, everything seems to be moving as it should.
Lambda 1 fluxuate nicely, Lambda 2 is more static, but changes once in a while.
Injection times, seems okay, coolant temperature etc, etc.
The only other code that shows up is the cooling fan Low Speed, and it seems to be a faulty resistor relay, or what that thing is called.
I tried to activate it from the PC and can only activate High Speed, no reaction on the Low Speed part.
But that code only comes if the engine comes up to temp and the fan is activated.
I checked the EGR valve and it seems to be fine, of course both bolts snapped off so I had to remove the thermostat housing to get them drilled out and new threads inserted.
So that is where it ended the last time in the garage.
The only thing I did before towing the car back home to order new gasket and get the threads fixed was to take out the spark plugs,, but the 4th, nearest the gearbox, was not properly tightned, it came out without any effort, the 3rd, came out with only fingergrip power, the 2nd and 1st was like the 4th, not tightned.
The colors on the 1st, 2nd, and 4th plug was more normal "soted" but the 3rd "loose" was almost white.
Can that have made it so that the engine suchs air into the third cyl and it goes to lean and trigger some sort of fault in the low range rpm's so the engine either lowers the ignition timing or turns of the 3rd cyl?
Or is it any other problem besides the spark plugs that can create these symptoms within these low range rpm's 1000-1800?
I have not yet been able to test the car with new spark plugs, tightened correctly this time, since I am still waiting for new therm-housing gasket, new spark plugs and other parts.

Regards R
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Well, now the car is back togheter, and still the same symptoms.
It still goes fine on idle, over ~1900-rpm,, but when it is in the range 1000-1800rpm, the same ESP lamp shows up (I have no idea why the Electronic Stability Program lamp even lights up 5 sec before this happens, since the car ain't moving anywhere and the ABS lamp never lights up??), and 5 sec later the Check Engine lamp follows and the engine starts to go strange, followed by the Catalystic Converter Fault/Anti Pollution message in the display, and it has a rattling sound all along the exhaust pipe.
The new sparkplugs, tightend did not seem to help at all.
Still only the same faultcodes, P0300, missfiring one or more cylinders.
When reading live values, the lambda readings are fine 0.1-0.7, the rear lambda goes between 0.6-0.7 on idle,, but when the engine goes into this strange mode, it shuts down the lamba sonds readings to 0v on both sonds.
Anyone with any suggestion?? before the car goes to the scrapyard, which is a shame since it is rustfree and is in good condition over all,, except this strange behaviour which does my head in.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Would that be possible for this rpm related problem? I am not driving the car, it is just stationary when these symptoms occure.
If I try to drive it, it just starts to studder when I am taking off and it goes into this strange "failsafe" mode seconds after the rpm gauge goes past ~900rpm
I tried to rapidly put it above 2000rpm and take off slowly releasing the clutch so it did not go under 2000rpm,, and accelerate from there up to 4-5000 and back, up and back shifting to second gear without going below 2000rpm,, no hesitation or any problems.
But that is not either an ideal way to drive or as a car should behave.
I suspected vacuumleak, but can't find any audioble hissing noises or broken hoses/nipples/pipes.
I think it is just an tiny tiny fault, but with knowledge from a bunch of Renaults, those tiny faults can take forever to find, and I don't feel to spend an eternity on a car anymore after years of doing so.
So if I don't miraculously find anything or anyone recognise these symptoms,, it is going to the scrapyard in the near future.

Forgot to add that the engine does not behave like this the first minute after a cold start, when it is in the "choke" state,, and it is not a intermittant problem, it is a constant existing problem, the symptoms are the same no mater what, cold weather, warm weather, rain, mist or sunshine, except the first minute when cold started.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, but there is no such sound when it is not in that "safe mode".
The exhaust system is not old.
It only gets that rattle sound when the engine goes in to this strange mode, before that it is a normal healthy sound in the exhaust.
 

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These engines rarely run perfectly it could be dirty injectors people always assume missfiring is spark related but it can also be caused by fuel or lack of due to clogged injectors this can also cause cat messages.

ESP fault is being caused BECAUSE of the poor running allowing the revs to drop this in turn makes the ABS system to see low voltage and that is what puts the ESP light on
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The revs dont drop, maybe I can see if I can make a video clip and upload somewhere.
But if I rev the engine, lets say 1100rpm, then it takes around 4 sec, then it beeps and the ESP light turns on, then 4 sec later the engine suddenly starts behave like it turns the ignition timing to 0, but it does not according to the PC,, but the sound is like that, blubblubblubblubb, like an old fishingboat.

So when it is inside the "wrong" rev range 900~ 1900,,
4 sec pass, beeps, ESP light on,
4 sec more, Check Engine light at the same time as the engine goes into this state,, then the Catalytic/Antipollution message.
So the revs are not low at 500-600rpm when the ESP turns on.
 

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It is missing some sort of signal as thats the only thing that will turn the ESP light on like that low voltage or a loss of run signal from the engine the ABS is seeing the fault first due to it being more sensitive so fix the fault and the ESP light will not come on anymore its nothing directly to do with the ABS/ESP.

I recon your issue is simply a wiring issue somewhere this is by far the no1 problem on peugeots after that its simply the fact its french :)
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Yes, french electronics,, says it all, that's why it took ages to find faults on renaults I have had in the past, I swore to never touch a frenchie again, but this peugeot is in such good condition and was only about 150£ and my sister don't have a car, but 2 kids, so that's why I thought I would give it a try to get her one that would go a couple of years before it falls apart by rust.
It does not give any other faultcodes, more than that missfiring, after the engine goes into that strange mode, and cuts the voltage to both lambda sonds at the same time.
If the flywheel sensor has said goodnight, would it not give a faultcode like the camshaft sensor did? and could the car start without the flywheel sensor? or does it need both to run?
The car ain't moving when all this happens, so in my head can not be ABS related, and all of the ABS sensors works, I checked each of their speed readings when I tested it on the street just to rule them out.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
By the way, does anyone have the schematics for the ECU on this 2.0L engine?
One thing that was strange when I checked all connections in the enginebay, the first thing i did before doing anything else to the car, in the middle of the three connectors on the ECU, if you stand infront of the car, one of the small pins marked K I believe, in the bottom row closest to the bigger flat pin on it's left, the row of pins towards you in this position infront of the car, was bent towards the bigger flat pin and went into that bigger pins socket hole.
I thought some lesser careful person had been there before and forced the middle connector into the ECU and bent that pin so it hade bent towards the flat pin and gone with that into it's socket hole.
So I straightned it out, it did not felt loose in the ECU itself, but it made no difference.
I just wonder what that small pin reads, if there could have been any damage in the ECU electronics when it sat with the bigger flat pin, or if it does not have anything with these symptoms to do.
But I have not been able to find any schematics, or have any faultcode regarding the ECU, not before I straightend it out, and not after.
I try to upload a picture of it,, Row 1, small pin K was togheter with bigger flat pin J
That resizeing did not do well for the image.
Well, on the picture, it is on the bottom row, the third small pin from the left was joining the second larger pin from the left in it's sockethole.
 

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I had an odd problem like this after I'd messed around with my 1.9 Berlingo. I'd managed to swap the two vacuum pipes going to the EGR valve. The car would start and run for a while then start misfiring and smoking. I realised what I'd done when I watched the EGR valve moving when it shouldn't.
Ok it was a non turbo car but it's a possibility it's something exhaust related.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
This is a non turbo, but the EGR valve is electrically controlled, so no vacuum that controlls it.
The only vacuum lines that goes to the throttle house is from the brake servo and crankcase ventilation.
I get the feeling it has something to do with either something air related or sensor related.
Not much information on the internet about these cars, but if the crankshaft sensor would be defect the engine would die or not start, and the camshaft sensor is a new NGK.
I thought about timing issues, but then it would go into this strange mode at any rpm?
But it is only between 900~2000rpm, any other rpm and load does not matter, so the air related issue seems unlikely in my mind.
Feels like something rpm related, but I never had to deal with a peugeot before, so I don't know hos the engine management system is built on these cars, which sensors that are involved at what rpm.
The ECU was not a Siemens 813 as I thought, but a Magneti Marelli IAW 6LP1, but still can't find any wiring schematic.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If the picture of the in SEDRE is correct of the 48V MR connector, the pin L1 and M1 is for the electric throttle,, and K1 is not connectes to anything? Blanc.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
So, another update, more headscratching.
Checked over the car again.
Brakelight swith and brakelight bulbs seems to cause some issues in some cars, but they all worked fine.
I cleaned the two sensors on the intake, the one in the throttlebody, and the black Bosch one underneath that, no difference.
Emptied all fuel and poured some fresch in, no difference.
The short threaded EGR pipe that goes out from the cylinderhead was loose, when I wiggled the rustfree EGR pipe that goes to the intake it wiggled in the cylinderhead,, so I took the rustfree clamp and pipe of it and tightened it, it was not clogged with sot, so no problem there. Put the rustfree pipe and clamp back on, no difference.
I tried to remove each injector when the engine goes into this blubberly mode, and each time cyl 4, the one towards the gearbox was cut out, so the engine does not react when I pulled that one.
I switched injector 4 with 2, to see if the problem followed with the injector,, and nope, it did not, still cuts off cylinder 4, maybe that is why it at the same time cuts out voltage to both lambda sonds at the same time.
So some hours later, still not a step closer to a solution 😕 but now I know that it cuts cylinder 4 out, and I can not figure out why it does that.
No vacuum leaks, no cracks in the intake.
I will see if I can borrow a coilpack from a friend, but I can not see why it would run fine on idle and over 2000rpm if the coilpack would cause any problems?
Would it not cause problems in all the rpm range and give audible misfiring sounds then?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I think ignition coil pack have to wait. Cleared all faultcodes now after I were there and pulled injector contacts, tested to pull the EGR contact to and the engine died, so that seems to work, and other contacts.
But now, the strange thing is,, I have driven the engine into that 4th injector cut off 5-6 times now,, it still comes in the same rpm range, but now it does not give any misfiring faultcodes anymore? 😐
Instead, now the "ESP/ABS does not function" message appears in the display instead,, and it gives a fault on my PC
"Communication with engine management wrong value: Permanent" instead of "Anti Polution",
but no Pxxxx faultcode,, but only in the 900~ 2000 rpm range.
I can have the car running on idle for 10-15 min, no problem, rev it to 2000~ for 5 min, no problem.
But it is still the same behaviour, cuts off the 4th injector after 4 seconds of being in the range between 900~2000 rpm,, only difference is the faultmessage and that the Check Engine light does not turn on.
The car is still not moving an inch, just sits stationary outside my house.
This car drives me mentally insane 😕
 

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Discussion Starter #19
It works flawless, until it gets cut off apr, 4 sec after the ESP lights up when the engine comes inside the 900~ 1800 rpm range.
It responds like normal when reving it, if i rev it quickly it happens nothing, if I let go of the pedal, nothing happens, it just falls down to idle again, only when keeping the revs it in that 900/1800 range for apr, 4 sec, the ESP light up and then this blubberstate.
Turn the key off, restart it, runs just fine again.
If there would be a bad connection, would it not react this way at any revs? and the thing that it cuts the power to both lambda sonds at exactly the same time as the blubberstate occurs.
If it would happen more intermittent, then I would go over all cables and connectors to everything one more time, but it only does it in that rev range.
I can't find anything like those symptoms on the internet,, either it goes bad from cold start, gets better when it warms up, misfire sporadic or all the time if it is the ignition coil pack.
This car only does it in that rev range, never at any other time.
Would be interesting to know if it is the low load range for this engines, and what sensors and such that is involved at this time which get's bypassed at idle and higher revs/load.
 
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