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Hiya can anyone please help me? I've had a power loss problem for last year and a half on my 2009 207cc thp. It will only drive in limp mode and will not come out of this unless the codes are reset. I also have the dreaded anti pollution system faulty coming up in my dash! I've had it in many garages and nobody can find out what's wrong! This is driving me crazy and I don't know what else to do! I've had a new timing chain, tensioners and a new lambda sensor! This fixed it for 5 weeks but the problem is now back! I have nowhere else to turn to! Please help :-( my fault code is P2191
 

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hi, unfortunately P2191 is 99% of the time is timing related though can be other areas that are suspect, but the 1st thing I would do is measure the timing.

who did the timing at xmas? was it a full replacement of all timing components or just the chain and tensioner?

where abouts are u from?
 

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Hiya thanks for reply! It was a non peugeot garage but all peugeot parts were used! It was the whole thing not just the chain! It lasted 5 weeks but I'm back in limp home mode permanently! I had a new lambda sensor also but that didn't work at all!

I am from Orkney Islands! So very limited up here!
 

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still new to this but is that code a general dtc or is taken from pp2000 and the like.
may want to find a member to get it read if not done so yet, noticed pp2000 does pop up with stuff a general code reader cant see.
 

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probably the non Peugeot garage have not done the timing work correctly, it needs specialist tools, cheap ebay ones don't work.

normally only Peugeot master techs that do the work in the Peugeot garages on this engine.
 

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The guy I got to do it is an excellent mechanic! I wouldnt trust just anyone to touch my car! It can't be that hard putting a new timing chain on! I don't think this is my issue tho! It's coming up on peugeot diagnostics saying fuel mix too rich so surely it has to be something with the burning of fuel ratio not correct! I want to know why peugeot have no idea how to fix their own cars? It's a joke! There's hundreds of people with this fault yet peugeot UK denying there's any problems with this engine! I'm so frustrated I just don't know what to do anymore :-(
 

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i understand your frustration, ive had cars where the only way to fix is to start swapping out bits as no garage has a clue.

if its running rich do you notice it a little more steamy from the exhaust, more than it should be, if so get your mech to release the bleed screw/s check for air in the coolant system.
other sensors that control the mix are the lambdas, not sure if one is just a monitor and the other controls the mix, which one did you change pre or post?

tmap sensor on the inlet manifold is another

airleak around inlet manifold/pipes wouldnt help but would of thought that would have it reving higher than normal

always worth cleaning both vanos valves, and removing eccentric shaft motor making sure the worm gear is clean and not gunked up.

sure i could go on, but i would be looking for cheap second hand parts if you have ruled out valve timing.

oh also tell your mech to check for any water in the ecu/ plugs,check cat is breathing and the engine is getting to the right temprature.
 

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appreciate that the mechanic might be excellent, but if not got the correct tools or information then there is recipe for disaster like you are experiencing now.

Peugeot do know how to fix these issues, a timing chain and components is a 6 hour job. there are just as many cars out there with no timing issues as well and they are a brilliant car and engine to drive if they are looked after.

for whatever reason, Peugeot (PSA) have joined with BMW in using these engines, economoy, performance etc etc.

they did have a huge amount of issues in the early days of the engine, but like us all, they learn like we learn. like the looked after comment above, keeping the oil at max is crucial for the engine and timing, something that us owners have found over the years.

the engine runs to very fine tolerances and if not using the correct tool to lock the camshaft when setting the timing, its very very easy to mess things up trust me, we did it on a mates car few months back with a 50 quid tool from ebay, and the car was horrendous and was well outwith the tolerances allowed by the ECU to run well when was measured.

ideally ur mechanic would have the tools to do the job, but at 260 quid the tool is from Peugeot, I doubt most mechanics or non dealership garages will have the tool lying handy for them at that price!!

if its coming up as running rich now, the high pressure fuel pump would be a suspect area from my experiences, and would soon have another fault code warning.

what mileage is the car? how long have u had it for etc?

there are certain fault codes on the THP engine that are very very common, and am afraid that P2191 is one of the most dreaded, as mentioned before its 99% timing issue but there other suspect areas that it could be, but changing part for parts sake is like finding needle in a haystack hoping to get it rite.
 

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Thankyou very much for your reply. I have no clue about cars so I can't change myself! I didn't even realise there was 2 parts to a lambda sensor either! Yes fuel mix too rich! I've complained to peugeot so kinda waiting to see if they come up with anything but they keep telling me it's chargeable to me which is frustrating as I've just paid £550 for the car still not to be running! What I need is a guarantee from Peugeot to say it will be fixed for x amount! I'm near at the point in burning it and claiming on insurance because it's costing me so much money and stress!

I've not noticed my exhaust to be any more smoky or noisy but I have noticed I'm going through more fuel when it's in limp home mode!

I bought a Bluetooth obd2 sensor to wipe codes coz I'm so fed up of this! It's dangerous at roundabouts and junctions or I can't overtake. But I know I can't keep resetting codes incase I do damage! I'm just driven despair! Actually been quite ill with all the worry! Still paying a large monthly loan on this till jan! I can't sell it as nobody will buy it and trading it in means losing 5.5k to what I spent on it just over 2 years ago! Joke
 

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ADS77 Thankyou! I've had car 2 years past in nov but it was 3 years old when I got it! It's a 59 plate! Has 39000miles on clock and started experiencing problems about 30000. Car cost me 10k and already spent around 1k on repairs! I'm just at my wits end! I'm losing sleep over the whole thing as nobody has a clue! F303 also coming up on my diagnostic and P0070 & P0073 which is something to do with my outside temp (ambient) I think! But P2191 saying permanent fault!
 

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they say 40k is around the time for a change of timing chain, like everything even us, we all have our shelf lives!!

I had a 3k repair bill couple years back when some internals of engine went and turbo seal also went, but that's cause its heavily modified GTI version.

P0070
Fault in the ambient air temperature information received from the BSI : Value received incorrect

P0073
Fault in the ambient air temperature information received from the BSI : Coherence

must say not seen those faults before!!

they could very well be issue for the problems u have been having, as the ECU will calculate all the equations from the data it gets from all the sensors etc then once its gone into the exhaust side of the engine if the data seems faulty it will flag faults up.

sometimes its a sensor at fault and its a cheap fix, sometimes its more technical and indepth.
 

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yes i was thinking the same, a faulty ambient temp sensor, wouldnt hurt in most cars but the peugeot 207 is a little ott and wouldnt be suprised if the ecu used data to control the mix.

if it was my car i would start there first, i would get a cheap used sensor from ebay or someone breaking a 207cc, the sensor is located under the driverside exterior mirror, may just need a cleanup.

if it is the sensor dont expect results instantly, will probably need a good run for the ecu to adjust i found.

also are you loosing any coolant?
 

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Personally I wouldn't start just reppacing sensors and parts without knowing the likely cause of the problem, ur just throwing money away doing that and replacing what could very well be good working parts.
 

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Hello I am not losing any coolants! The sensor isn't working but this only started a few weeks ago! Long after I was experiencing other problems! I have a new sensor I just need it to be fitted yet but just paid a £550 bill so need to recover from that 1st :-( car still running in limp home mode! Just keeps coming back after it's been reset
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Anti pollution fault and car drives like a 1 litre engine! No power whatsoever like the turbo been switched off
 

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had a look around bmw and citroen sites as they use the same engine more or less, and found the chain was the main problem, but you have had that done.

next was sooting up of cylinder head, which kind of makes sense if you have been driving with a stretched chain and overfueling. carbon deposits will coat the pistons head and valves.

think thats what i would be looking at first, whether you put in additives or get something like a terraclean.

in the old days we just used to pour redex straight into the cylinders but its not done any more, probably because the smoke that comes out is unreal and probably not good for the cat.
anyway have a search' bmw citroen thp carbon decoke treatment ' etc
 
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