[Jonnn]

Ok, my 207 won't start. If anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated.

He's what we have found out so far:

• There's no engine code faults
• Fuel is getting to the spark plugs
• The spark plugs are firing
• The timing is OK (I'm not sure how this was checked, because it's currently at a garage)
• The engine is turning over, sometime it almost catches but never quiet makes it.
• The battery indicator on the dashboard is continuously flashing.
• There appears to be no power to the drivers side electric window (not checked the others)
• The oil level is OK.
• We replaced the radio 2 weeks before this problem occurred (the previous one was faulty).
• We have tried a BSI reset, 2 or 3 times.
• We have tried two different keys.

My problem is now that the mechanic can't find an issue and wants to systematically check all the sensors, which even he acknowledges is a completely open-ended job. I'm at a slight loss to understand how it isn't starting if the timing, fuel and plugs are all OK.

Current speculation, based on other people having similar issues:

• A fused could have blown.
• The tensioner could be faulty, or the timing chain could have jumped.
• It could be the lambda sensors
• It could be the camshaft / crankshaft sensors

Has anyone experienced this before and can you provide any advice?
Any help much appreciated.
Jonnn

 

[reliable406]

Does the car see the key has the garage checked using the key on key off open door test

I know you say it has spark and fuel but if thats true it should go !

If it does have fuel and a spark then timing could be the issue

Lambda probes wont stop starting

 

[Jonnn]

Hi, thanks for replying...

>Does the car see the key has the garage checked using the key on key off open door test

Is this a specific test? If you mean does the remote central locking work, then yes it does.

>I know you say it has spark and fuel but if thats true it should go !
Yep that's what's confusing me. If you leave it for while and try it, it really does sound like it almost going to bite and start running, but it never quiet gets there. The starter motor is cranking it over etc, it just doesn't want to play.

>If it does have fuel and a spark then timing could be the issue.
They say they've checked this and it's OK. I'm not sure how you check it, so I have to take their word for that; although the resulting logic doesn't make sense, i.e. it should start.

(As you can probably tell I'm not a car expert, but I can understand stuff once someone explains it to me)

More info I forgot before:
I check the bettery with a volt meter and that was OK.
Also tried jump starting from another car.

 

[WillNZ]

If you definitely have a good fuel supply and good spark, you have not flooded it, and still no start, it is most likely either valve timing or no compression [or both].

What did you test with, PP2000/Diagbox or a generic code reader?

How have you determined it has good spark?

How have you determined it has a good fuel supply to the cylinders?

I would start by checking compressions across all cylinders.

 

[reliable406]

car not starting first check is key not the locking side !

Put key in ignition turn on turn off leave key in ignition open door car should beep beeping is good !

No beep means key is not being seen if its not seen it WONT start

This is unlikely to be the issue but it is 1 thing people often overlook the fact it locks the car does NOT mean it can start the car there are 2 parts to the key the locking and the immobiliser they work separately.

 

[Jonnn]

Hi, thanks for replying as well...

>What did you test with, PP2000/Diagbox or a generic code reader?
>How have you determined it has good spark?
>How have you determined it has a good fuel supply to the cylinders?

I check the codes with a generic reader, I'm not sure what the garage has used. The sparks and fuel were checked by the garage. I'll check if they have PP.

A question is occurring and I just want to check that I've understood. Am I correct in saying that there's only one thing called timing, which controls when the sparks fire in relation to the piston (whatever they're called in the engine) position? So if they say the timing is OK, they can't be refering to a different thing to what you mention what you talk about timing issues.

 

[reliable406]

They mean the same thing but people have many ways of checking it and some get things wrong

 

[Jonnn]

Thanks for the info about the key test.
I'll ask them if they've done that.
Like you say, maybe unlikelt but its definitely worth a go.

 

[Jonnn]

Ok, thanks. I was starting to wonder if I had missed soemthing.
I'll ask them that as well.

 

[WillNZ]

car not starting first check is key not the locking side !

Put key in ignition turn on turn off leave key in ignition open door car should beep beeping is good !

No beep means key is not being seen if its not seen it WONT start

This is unlikely to be the issue but it is 1 thing people often overlook the fact it locks the car does NOT mean it can start the car there are 2 parts to the key the locking and the immobiliser they work separately.

I initially ruled this possibility out as the OP stated it had fuel and spark, neither would be present if the key was not working the immobiliser. But asked the question just to verify that fuel and spark were in fact present.

To answer question about timing, there are two timing issues to be checked. First is the timing controlling spark, this is usually controlled by the crank sensor. Second is the cam timing, this is determined by the cam belt/chain. The spark timing can be correct but the cam timing out if the belt/chain has slipped/stripped/broken. A quick check that the cam timing is reasonably OK is to do a compression check. If compressions are up to spec, it is reasonable to assume that cam timing is ok. Even 1 tooth out will change the compression from spec, but most engines will start if the cam is only one tooth out. In your case with no start, if the cam is out, it will be by several teeth, and there will be a noticeable drop in compression. Hence the compression check..

 

[Jonnn]

Hi WillNZ,
thanks. That makes sense.
I will enquire as to what they have checked in a bit more detail.
Thanks for that bit of info.

 

[stripe88]

also with the electrical problems check for water in ecu and fusebox connectors and plugs.

 

[Scradson]

Just to check have you replaced your keyfob at all, the casing and switched the insides over?

 

[Jonnn]

Well, after inquiring at the garage further they're theory is that the VVT is at fault. The cam / crank shafts are in synch (they say).

To fix it they have to replace the two cogs on the left of the engine, with the timing chain wrapped around it. Apparently you can't buy these on their own, so it's a new timing chain and the cogs. (They we calling the part something like veresona or verona). This is circled on the left in the attached picture.

Apparently the engine is getting too much fuel, because the cog on the right is stuck in the forward position. The cog is controlled by the variable valves, which are controlled by the cogs on the left. This theory of too much fuel fits with other symptoms we've seen in the fast; including pollution faults, caked spark plugs; burning a lot of fuel in the first 50 miles after filling up.

So the quote to replace a chain kit with 2 x VVT hubs and an oil filter, because that'll need doing because they're doing the other bits, is £1100.

Look like it's off to the scrap yard for this one.

 

[Scradson]

Is this a picture of your engine? Is it peugeot doing the work?
Oh and did the say the cog on the right was stuck on forward because of your vanos hubs were faulty?
You need pp2000

 

[Scradson]

There is a guy on eBay who can get genuine Peugeot timing kits that's all your bolts, guides, chain, tensioner etc full kit plus both vanos Hubs
I just brought one £240 delivered
You'll Just need to get it fitted

 

[Jonnn]

Hi Scradson,
it's not my engine. It's one that looks the same that I was using to highlight the location of the parts in question. The top was off, just like that.

That was it "vanos".
Yeah, that's the theory they have.
Is this something that can be checked with PP2000?
Would they need to put it back together to check it with PP2000?
That would be interesting. I'd probably pick one of those up and try it myself.

 

[Jonnn]

To be honest I'm toying with getting it back. I have a friend who is very handy with a car engine. If he's interested in having a play I might go the ebay route.

 

[Jonnn]

Oh, missed a question. No it's not Peugeot. It's a local garage.

 

[Scradson]

Well I think the part on your right on the pic is to do with the variable valve lift which has an variable valve lift motor which maybe why it's not working but you can check these with pp2000