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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I have a peugeot 207 1.4 8V (petrol) 2010 KFT

My issues where I need help are the following:
  • car is starting rough in the morning(2-3 seconds key), after I drive ~10km car starts fine for about 2 hours sit (tested battery and looks good)
  • car running idle a bit rough, rpm fluctuates ~80rpm and also can hear the non round engine run;
  • in neural if I accelerate over 2000 rpm and let go I get random popping sounds from exhaust;
-most annoying is this: if I accelerate over 4500 RPM and stay there ~5 seconds I get engine light with antipollution, error codes are P1336, P0326 (i think this is due to P1336) and P2177, usually I get only P1336, also the error go off by itself after 2-3 days. Wierd thing is I can change gears at 5000 RPM without errors however if I keep this rpm longer(as I mentioned) it go faulty.

What was changed/verified:
  • booth o2 sensors were changed (they were bad, also ~90000km)
  • map sensor changed
  • verified spark plugs(2000km with them), all 4 have the same deposit (normal deposit)
  • cleaned throttle body(little gunk)
  • sprayed wd40 all around injectors and inlet mainfold with no rpm difference seen
  • I saw water in coilpack plug so I cleaned it, however no improvement
I have in mind to take out the injectors and verify them.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
HI again,
I swapped coil pack with a brand new delphi one. All symptoms remain the same, this means old coil pack good.
Any ideeas, can be the catalytic converter cloged?
 

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hi, not sure about the 1.4 so i'm just throwing out some suggestions.... the popping noise could be a mis-fire, or what used to be called "pinking" which could be anything from a sticky valve to a faulty sensor. the starting issue could be the cam and crank sensors not working together in unison, possibly old or faulty wiring, anti-pollution faults could be a drippy injector or again, a mis-timed ignition system. when the lambdas were replaced, did you reset the adaptions? i believe there is a way to do it without the diagnostic kit but i'm not sure what it is! best of luck finding the fault.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi,
Just a quick update on work that was done on this engine:
- previous owner at 81000 km (87000km now) had timing belt broken, 4 valves were changed, rectified cylinder head, tests ... all done at peugeot;

@paul-e :
  • lambdas were changed 2 months ago ~ 2000km
  • I have generic diagnostic tool, and yes, I did adaptation memory reset.
Today I tried driving at high revs (4000rpm) for extended time to clean the catalytic converter, worked about 10 min then i start hearing popping form the engine, car went limp mode until halt. I restarted engine and drive 20km(normal revs) without problems, also I saw ~0.5l less fuel consumption.

I forgot to note that popping in exhaust is not present when engine is cold.
 

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hi, if you've driven 6k and the problem is just happening then that rules out the pug' garage having done a bad job, there are so many sensors ready to create this or similar issues, along with faulty wiring or loom plugs / water ingress. if it's "fine" at cold then that is when the lambda's are not affecting the fueling / timing etc, only once it has warmed up will it use those, i would get the car to a forum member local to you who has a "diagbox" (if there is one), or to peugeot to get their diagnosis, they may need the car overnight to do a cold-start test to experience the same issues as you are getting. i have only had my 1.6thp for a year and have replaced EVERY sensor as a matter of good workshop practice and to rule them out, 1 by 1. this isn't something i would suggest for everyone, but, if there are things you can do yourself to reduce labour costs, it's always a good idea. the popping noise may be "in" the exhaust but it may not actually "be" the exhaust, mostly, popping is un-burnt fuel burning off at the wrong time (or too early). maybe there is a piece of carbon glowing red in a combustion chamber. igniting the fuel too early, causing a mis-fire (popping). many moons ago i had a renault 19, 1.6 16v, which had a vent in the bonnet, that used to let water in to the spark-plug wells causing a sideways spark to earth and making the car run very bad. i doubt that you have that issue but it could be worth looking for an insufficient engine earth (or adding one, just to rule that out!) it may also be a weeping injector, wouldn't hurt to add a load of injector cleaner to a low level of fuel and run it for a few minutes, turn off to "heat-soak" and repeat a few times.
 

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What condition/grade is the oil it could be sticking or pumping up lifters
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi engine oil is 5w40, was changed in 11/2018 when the car had engine repair for broken timing belt, a bit of oil was in the coolant jar walls back then however I flushed again the system and no oil deposit anymore. I have a small coolant leak from the thermostat body, is very weak however is wetting 2 sensor connectors down close to the gearbox.

Just for "fun" today I forced again the engine to run at 4000RPM, was working 4-5 seconds then went to no power until I stopped, engine was still running(idle) like in 3 cylinders making very bad exhaust and engine sound(not popping) and a lot of exhaust pressure blown out of the pipe. I restarted the engine and went home changing gears at 3000rpm with no problems whatsoever. Checked errors and had P250C and P1336, I dont know what is about P250C, my ODB scanner is not having this KFT engine code. I tried KFV and KFU and I don't have this error in booth engine codes.
 

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P250C, oil level issues, but the oil level is ok, first thought would be the sensor, another thought would be how well the oil dip-stick seals in its tube, and how well the oil filler cap seals, (keeping pressure in the engine). i worked at a VW dealership for some time and a common problem on their small engines was due to the owner checking the oil and not fully inserting the dip-stick back in! If you can dry the sensors being made wet by the coolant and keep them dry that would rule them out. The limp-home mode would generally allow you to drive but at lower rev's, by keeping to below 3k rpm you are doing the job of the ecu, P1336 is possibly the crank angle sensor (on my 1.6 it is shoved up inside the bell-housing of the gearbox and reads a pulse from the flywheel) again, this could be faulty wiring, faulty sensor, "old" sensor. if you can do the job yourself, they are under £20 (in the uk) and available via e-bay, for the age of the car, it would be prudent to replace it "regardless" (then reset the adaptions) i would need to confirm this but, i think i read somewhere on this forum that the cam-shaft-sensor only really assists in start-up and the crank-sensor gives all the correct / required info to the ecu.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hi, I think I did an misunderstanding of this P1336 error. It is hard for me to understand what is this code for my engine with generic diagnostic tooling (delphi autocom 2014 dose not support this engine KFT ...weird).
If I look on the web I find 2 explanations: Crankshaft sensor faulty, and Misfire detected on one or more cylinders. Until now I looked at throttle body, map, spark plugs, coil pack, lambdas with no clue, also when I changed lambda 1 I saw the catalytic converter not being clogged.
I will take the crankshaft sensor out and verify it to see for connector corrosion, maybe I will replace it, also the leaky thermostat. I can do this kind of job on my own.
Also I found out that 207 petrol engine models have this exhaust popping while deceleration, like "normal" behavior.
 

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hi, "popping" in the exhaust is normally caused by un-burnt fuel entering a hot exhaust and burning off. this is usually only on vehicles which have been re-tuned to gain more horse power, as a result of their tune, on deceleration, there is still un-burnt fuel in the combustion chamber which enters the exhaust, this will, over time, cause issues in your cat!. is it possible that the cam-belt could have jumped a tooth? i have just tried to find the position of the knock sensor, if the sensor is one of those getting wet, it could be contributing to your problems. the knock sensor (P0326 code ) contributes to the advance and retard of the engine, this would cause popping if it wasn't providing the correct info to the engine ecu. on my engine, the knock sensor is below the inlet manifold (not visible without removing most of the inlet manifold) and nowhere near the coolant. not sure with your engine. the sensor is "usually" a 2 wire item, round with a bolt through the centre. pretty unassuming but quite important. another thing to "rule out".
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi,
Knock sensor fail I had when the lambdas failed, after that I did not have that knock problem. I have a torque wrench and the sensor however as being under the inlet manifold I don't want to change it until I really have problems with it. Still this P1336 is my question what is this really.
Here I have a graph for my idle speed which I found odd fluctuation.
87944
 

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hi, can the delphi system show coherence on both the crank and cam sensors? (are they running in sync?) it also looks like there's a problem with the throttle position after the 2nd spike after 15, were you tapping the accelerator pedal? i have both "torque pro" and Diagbox, they both "mostly" agree with each other when i compare the throttle position against the pedal position. can you also do that comparison with delphi? (sorry, can't answer quickly as i'm supposed to be working!!)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi, unfortunately in Delphi I did not saw any crank and cam sensor view option. I was not tapping acceleration. I ordered the crank sensor 18$ (Vemo) and thermostat 40$(Vernet).
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi, today after a rainy day with the car sit for 24 hours I toked a look over the engine, and I saw water all over the zone indicated by red especially on the left brown device with 2 pipes. I have different engine so the throttle body electronics are in the other side and not wet. Water is dripping from the washer pipes, I belive there are some seal problems at the windshield spray nozzle gasket.

88042
 

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hi,
this link may help:


he seems to know quite a bit. sadly, i've not toyed with a 1.4 so wouldn't know enough without playing!

the brown thing to the left "might" be an EGR valve or a fuel tank vent solenoid, not sure. the big metal thing to the right, the throttle body, on the air-box to the back, the small thing with the green label is the map sensor. your spark plugs are below all of that, if the spark-plug wells are wet / submerged, they will possibly be shorting to the engine body. if any of those wires and / or loom plugs are wet you'll get problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Hi,
I changed leaky thermostat and the crank shaft sensor, cleaned the connectors(were wet inside). Problem remains, car run good in load until sustained >4000 rpm. I was driving uphill 3'rd gear until 4500 rpm then antipollution occured. This is what I was getting:
88076


Still booth lambdas are new, Magneti Marelli and they read ok. Long term fuel trim is 3.1% short term fuel trim is about 1-2%
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Hi,
Yet another symptom I saw today when driving the car cold: suddenly hesitates acceleration when under 2500 rpm and a lot of popping from exhaust when decelerating, loss of power. Engine accelerate only if I press hard on the pedal, however the power is low.
As a review of what was changed/checked:

New lambdas(magneti marelli), new map, new crank shaft sensor, new air filter, added injector cleaner aditive.

Verified spark plugs, all look like in picture below, cleaned throttle body(did not check it's internals), tested engine with new coilpack however no difference( old coilpack placed back).
Sprayed lighter gas all over engine intake/fuel injectors with no rpm difference.

Is the flexible coupling good ?
Should I check throttle body internals?

Thank you.

88088
88089
88091
 

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hi, the flex-coupling on the exhaust, i dont know these particular cars, is the 2nd lambda before or after that in the flow? if there is any un-metered / unexpected clean air in the exhaust after the cat, before the downstream lambda, you'll get some strange fuel issues. strange that your fuel trims are so low though, sorry, i need to read up on these engines. p.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi, the flexible coupling is after 2'nd lambda, about 50 cm. Another thing I tested is that I kept car at 1500 rpm and checked rpm variance, it was about +-15 rpm, after I left the acceleration to idle and I had 750 +- 50rpm.
 

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Second sensor is normally just used to test cat is working and does not affect fuel trims

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