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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello guys,

I am having this problem with my lion, last night I turned off the engine when I got home (all fine until last night) and today I wanted to start it and it does not start.

1 - it cranks but it does not fire
2 - no errors (checked with obd2 elm327)
3 - removed the coil and replaced the plugs (no spark at the plugs)
4 - did beep test and I can hear 3 beeps ( ti ti ti pause ti ti ti pause ti ti ti pause ti ti ti pause....) if I have the key in ignition or even if put the key next to the ignition.
5 - checked the throttle body, if I turn on the ignition and press the acceleration pedal the throttle body is working (opening more or less).
6 - with ignition on and with my testing meter I was trying to get some voltage readings from the 4 pin connector that goes to the Sagem coil pack and it was 0 for all combinations.

Engine NFU 1.6 16V
Year 2005
Vin VF32DNFUA44717857

Known intermittent faults (once every 6-8 months) when idle at a stop light it was cutting off the engine and I was able to start it if I was pressing the acceleration pedal but I was able to fix this by cleaning the throttle body (some might say that the crank shaft sensor needed to be replaced).

Any ideas than can help me to fix this will be appreciated.

Thank you
 

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Check/change crank sensor, if you can get live data check for RPM when cranking.

ECU is not seeing engine turning so no injection or ignition would be my first check
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Check/change crank sensor, if you can get live data check for RPM when cranking.

ECU is not seeing engine turning so no injection or ignition would be my first check
Live data while cranking -> 0 RPM
Checked again for spark on plugs -> no spark
Checked to see if the spark plugs are wet or dry -> dry

I ordered the crank sensor 1920AW and while I was working on my car I also removed the 1920AJ (air presure sensor) from the manifold and give it a clean. It should work with the new crank sensor.
 

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The engine won’t start when it is middle hot

I have 206+ 1.6 lit 16v TU5JP4
My car is working in good condition all over the day except when the air temperature is hot and it parks in sun for about 1 hour or later, engine would not start, when I turn the key, start works and turns the engine but engine doesn’t turn on except I hold the gas pedal for about 1 minute, if I pull the gas pedal before one minute the engine speed goes to 300 or 200 and it goes up and down frequently and all indicators turns on such as engine check and battery or …, this event is still happened till engine works for about 1 minutes and after that everything goes normal.
Please advise me.
Thanks.
 

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It's possible that the intake air temperature sensor is sending false data to the ECU. My first step would be to clean it, and if that doesn't work, replace it.
 

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It's possible that the intake air temperature sensor is sending false data to the ECU. My first step would be to clean it, and if that doesn't work, replace it.
Many thanks for your kind response,
As the engine has motor temperature sensor (water heat sensor), and parameters are sending at the same time, is that point of error?
Also I cleaned MAP sensor. and the car work kilometer is about 20000.
 

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The IAT sensor is combined with the MAP sensor in your engine. The coolant temp sensor is less likely to be defective, going by your symptoms.

I would try a new MAP sensor.

Another possibility is insulation within the coil pack has deteriorated, so you could try swapping the coil pack.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Check/change crank sensor, if you can get live data check for RPM when cranking.

ECU is not seeing engine turning so no injection or ignition would be my first check

Right, got myself a new sensor, fitted it and the car started from the first try! Thank you guys!

However, now the car has the same symptoms like user "pmolazem" reported above. Sometimes I have to start it with the acceleration pedal down!
 

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However, now the car has the same symptoms like user "pmolazem" reported above. Sometimes I have to start it with the acceleration pedal down!

When the accelerator pedal is fully down and the starter is operated, fuel injection is cut off. This is intentional, to dry off flooded plugs. It sounds like your engine is flooding (too much fuel on the plugs, so no spark).

The most likely causes are as I suggested to pmolazem - MAP/IAT sensor or defective coil pack.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
When the accelerator pedal is fully down and the starter is operated, fuel injection is cut off. This is intentional, to dry off flooded plugs. It sounds like your engine is flooding (too much fuel on the plugs, so no spark).

The most likely causes are as I suggested to pmolazem - MAP/IAT sensor or defective coil pack.
Hi, thank you for your answer, however I was thinking about that and I removed the spark plugs just to check, and all of them were dry. I noticed today with my obd2, on idle it say that the throttle is 19-20% opened but I can confirm that it was fully close, when I go with the pedal fully down it opens 90 degrees (max). I think it is something wrong with the throttle so I am going to get a replacement...

However, it only happens when the engine is hot, on a cold start, starts like 13 years ago :)))
 

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I would check coolant sensor readings it may have failed and thinks car is cold all the time and clean throttle body

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Problem sorted, after the crank sensor failed and replaced, the ignition switch failed. I went to scrapyard, got a new ignition, removed the switch from it (comes with 5 wires and 2 connectors), removed the faulty switch from my ignition, fitted second hand one. Starts like 13 years ago! I was able to discover this by mistake, if I was shaking the key (engine on)...engine was going off. Thank you all very much for your help!
 

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Great that you fixed it, but how that ties up with holding the throttle wide open to get it to start is beyond me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Great that you fixed it, but how that ties up with holding the throttle wide open to get it to start is beyond me.

That is a good question, probably when I was holding the throttle or doing up down up down with my foot I was moving my body and my hand on the ignition.

When you are focusing to much on one thing you are missing other things...

I will go and test it now to see if it starts and I`ll reply back, no problems in the morning or since I replaced the contact. I went to that scrap yard with my car, I had problems before I started the car and go there, problems when I left from there. Problems on Mcdonalds ( :p ) when I got back and as soon as I replaced the contact it starts fine. However, the old crank sensor is faulty (did a try yesterday). I`ll reply back.
 

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Guys,
Thanks to your helpful responds,
What I’ve done:
- Clean crank sensor
- To watch ECU parameters and everything shows good
- Replace water heat sensor
- Clean MAP sensor
- Replace coil pack
- To measure fuel pressure
- To measure cylinder compression
What I found:
- Spark plugs become black with carbon coated film and it shows that the fuel and air combination are not good, I replaced it with new one and they were dirty in just 1 day, the problem may be due to start problem and bad turning on as I mentioned in my first post.
What I planned:
- Order new MAP sensor
- Order new Crank sensor
 

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Well, you've tried all the obvious things, so it has to be something less likely. I would clean all the plugs and sockets of the Engine ECU with contact cleaning spray (NOT WD40). Also, open it up and look for signs of any water ingress, dirt, etc.
 
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