Peugeot Forums banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi All

I'm having problems getting my old P307SW HDi started.
I hope some of you have experience re camshaft position sensor issues/wiring...
(or maybe it's something else?)

History:
2003 DW10ATED/RHS, 2.0HDi 107CV/HP (P307 SW/3H). 360.000km.
i) I used to have an issue about not starting when cold (T below 6-8degC)
- but starting fine when engine warm or T>12degC.
ii) replaced glow-plugs, glow-plug-relay, battery -> no change
iii) replaced starter with a new 1.7kW version
-> now starting at 0degC although cranking 5-10sec at this temp.
iiii) used it for 3 days to work - then this happened:
a) engine idling when suddenly making ugly noise (the A/C-compressor bearing failed)
b) Accessory belt lost a bit of width - loose ends whirling around :/
c) quickly turned off engine by using ign-key
d) engine could not start after removing loose acc-belt ends (but cranking ok)

My analysis done sofar:
1. PP2000 test gave 2 faults:
1a: cam/crank sync: engine speed variation too high
(-> probably due to the short high-friction from A/C-bearing or acc-belt? iiii-a)
1b: cam/crank sync: camshaft sensor signal missing
2. Checked connector for cam-shaft sensor
2a: measured 12V (?) on supply-pin (3) and GND on pin (1)
2b: pin 2 connector to oscilloscope: fairly simple pattern of 'square wave' seen:
medium-Lo;short-Hi;medium-Lo;short-Hi etc etc.
Judging from earlier pictures of camshaft 'pulley shape' I expected
to see something like:
long-Lo;short-Hi;long-Lo;short-Hi;short-Lo;long-Hi;short-Lo;long-Hi etc
=> at this point I believed cam-sensor was probably faulty?
3. Removed timing belt 'front cover' and checked timing belt - looked ok.
(I did not expect timing to have slipped either as the excessive load was on acc-belt/axis)
4. Engine starts when cranking after splash of 'ether'/diesel-start/easy start in inlet
- but engine stalls right away (as no fuel allowed?)
5. I deleted faults from ECU w PP2000.
6. Cranking again -> fault 1b re-appears (step 5+6 tried a few times - and 4+5+6...)
7. Replaced camshaft sensor with a new bosch-sensor -> same signal as 2b (pic coming)
(note to self: used external ground/ref from engine somewhere for the scope...)
8. crank-sensor un-mounted and cleaned and re-fitted.
9. checked engine speed in PP2000 when cranking: ~250-270 RPM
=> crank-sensor seems ok
10. made a hole in timing belt rear cover (did not want to fight the back-side cover-bolt)
=> figured out that cam-shaft pulley does NOT have separate 'position wheel'
(hmmm? until this point I thought RHS had this - maybe only RHW and newer?)
so I assume cam-shaft sensor just detect 3 spokes and ECU counts relative to crank-signal?
Anyway then it seems signal from cam-sensor is ok.
=> so, cause to fault could be broken cam-sensor wire or starter RF interference?
11. checked earth-connections near LHS headlights - ok.
(I guess other stuff would be happening if they were poor)
12. re-did steps 5+6 but after deleting codes I only turned key very shortly.
Hence allowing starter to just start cranking eg max 1/4-1/2 of a round.
Then reading fault codes: there were none...
So, only when cranking engine for a couple of secs I get fault 1b ("camshaft signal missing")
=> So my theory: ECU waits correctly for cam/crank sync and logs errors
as it can't 'see' cam-shaft signal - grrr.
13. checked wiring for obvious issues, but it's a bit hard as much is hidden

Plan:
A) re-check supply & GND on cam-sensor connector (really ok? although checked under point 2)
B) connect scope to ECU-end of sensor wires (if possible?) - dont know pins at ECU-end??
C) check each end of camshaft sensor cable (ohms) - dont know pins at ECU-end??
D) try to tow car and see if it starts - when there's no (RF)noise from starter??


Any help will be greatly appreciated...
F.ex.:
* Maybe you can provide details re cam-sensor connections at ECU-end?
eg which pins in the 3 big connectors to use?
(found this on some EDC15C2 image: pin 18 (signal), pin 12 (supply)
- but where are they in the 3 big connectors?)

Thanks,
BR mli
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,276 Posts
Crank sensor gives engine speed it is on the gearbox under thermostat

cam sensor tells ecu the relative position of the cam in relation to the crank

in planet it gives you cam and crank synchronisation reference in parameter readings it should say yes when cranking if it does not then belt may have slipped a tooth

parameters readings will also tell you if fuel pressure is ok etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Hi reliable

Thanks.
Maybe you're right... as your tagline says: 'check everything twice' :)

I will check timing.
Maybe it IS actually a correct fault message (sort).
First message was 'missing cam-sensor signal' message - but maybe it's generic.
(can't find my pictures of PP2000 screens from point 6 :-/ )
And I can see from other post that timing belt might be a bit weak.

It's strange that engine didn't cut out when acc-belt damage happened.
But let's see...

Cheers
mli
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Hi reliable (and others)

Finally I got time to check the timing today.

Tadaah... i was 2-3 teeths off :-/
Thanks for the hint!

I took off the timing belt and realigned.
And the car started (with a little help - it has been standing still since Feb.)
I tried to re-start it several times w/o probs :)
I dont have the PP2000 right now so I cant check codes/readings.

Note: I found remains of the aux-belt inside the timing belt covers - yikes.
So these aux-belt bits have maybe entered in between timing-belt and teeths - making it easier to slip... It could have gone much worse. :eek:

Going to replace both belts and maybe tensioner/support.
But maybe not before I have changed A/C-compressor...

Anyone having experience using a 'short' accessory/aux-belt and bypassing A/C-compressor?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,276 Posts
trouble is the cam setting on planet will not say yes until its started.

i tested this a few weeks ago. cranking wont show a yes
That is NOT SO as if belt is intact but timed wrong it will say no and if belt is timed correct it will say yes even when cranking i know it was always the first thing i checked on non starters.
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top