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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi Everyone.

I recently fitted a second hand instrument cluster as my original one had a blown EML. So I now have an EML that comes on when the ignition is turned on and goes off when the car starts.

However, when I plugged in my MS300 Scanner about three fault codes came up. As I do not know what happened and when I erased them and went for a drive.

When I checked again with my scanner P1351 was the only one that had returned but the EML had not come on.

I have also discovered that if when I first start the car if I put a few revs on the engine for 4 or 5 minutes, turn the engine off and erase the p1351, it will stay off for the rest of the day.

Is the EML supposed to come on with a P1351 fault code?
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hi Leemc.
Thank you but I already know it is either a glow plug or the relay that controls them.

Hi madbadandold.
The details of my car are in my signature. I have checked the Log Book and under D.2 the Variant is 3H9HZ* and the version is 3H9HZC. Is that the information you are looking for.

Hi Gibbo.
Thank you for answering my question.

I have change the relay as that is easy to do and cheap compared to the cost of a new set of glow plugs being fitted for me. First thing in the morning when the engine is stone cold, I should be able to hear the relay working when I switch on the ignition or is it when I start the car?

If after I have started the car in the morning and then cleared the P1351 code I restart the car, then I push the accelerator pedal to the floor. When the revs get to between 3000 and 3500 they stay there and I get smoke coming out of the exhaust. I think that is unburnt fuel.

When the engine is warm the revs will stop around the same point for a moment and then continue to go up but there is no smoke.

When the engine is up to normal running temperature the revs go straight past the problem area and the engine, as far as I know, runs properly.

I would like to test the glow plugs via the relay socket but there are six small spade connectors and four glow plugs. I cannot see any numbers on the socket so can someone please tell me where I need to connect a Multimeter.
 

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Robflh So you want us to go into your details to find the car details. Seems a bit silly, just include engine size when you start the thread is easier for all I would have thought.
Ooops sorry I have just spotted the details at the bottom of the thread!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Hi Leemc
You are quite right I cannot check the glow plugs via the relay but it should be possible to check them via the socket the relay plugs in to.

Holding the socket in the position it would be if the relay was plugged in to it, there are three small slots at the front two large in the middle and three more small ones at the back.

From left to right the front three are No.1, 2 and 3. The middle two are 4 and 5 and the back three are 6, 7 and 8.

If I take a multimeter set for 10A DC and connect one probe to the positive on the battery and the other to slot 2, the meter will show me how much current glow plug 1 is using. No current = dead glow plug.

Slot 1 for GP2
Slot 7 for GP3
Slot 6 for GP4

This is a video of it being done.

Alternatively, set the meter to 200 ohms but this time connect one probe to the negative of the battery and then repeat as before.
 

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The glow plugs have a very small resistance when new, around 3 Ohms each. After all they are just a heater. In warm weather they will not be live as they are designed for a cold start aid although some models do utilise them for the dpf regen. My 1.4 is a odd one because if all the plugs are open circuit it forces the engine into limp mode due to the fuel system fitted. No dpf though. I got round changing them by installing a 1Ohm resistance in their feed to fool the ecu that they were working.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi madbadandold.

There was another video I watched in which the guy said the resistance should be between 1.3 and 1.6 ohms.

The car is due for an MOT 11th November and I have booked it in for 11th October. It will be the first time I have put it in for an MOT so I am in no hurry to sort out the glow plugs until it passes the MOT or it fails and the cost to get it through the MOT is less then about £450, in which case I will keep the car and have new glow plugs fitted.

If it will cost more then £450 (over £700 including the glow plugs) then it may well be scrapped or sold on ebay.

I can get another car for £600 to £700 or even less then that and I will have four weeks to get it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi madbadandold.

I have never come across a multimeter with a 20 ohm range, so I believe 200 ohms is the lowest range and 1.3 is on the bottom end of the scale. However, I would say anyone testing the glow plugs this way is looking for a similar reading on each glow plug and if they get a high reading that glow plug is dead.

The coil at the bottom of the glow plug is basically a resistor. As I was taught, more years ago then I care to admit I can remember, resistors do not SHORT CIRCUIT they can only go higher or open circuit.

That was also about the time I bought my digital multimeter for about £95. At the time I bought it that was a lot of money and long before the cheap ones we can buy these days. It is also very accurate.

For about the last 17 years I have had to buy £600 estate cars because that is all I can afford. I normally get Mk2 Vectra’s and yes I pay my money and take my chances on whether it will last 1, 2 or if I am lucky 3 years. Before I do buy the car I check it's MOT history online. If it passed the last MOT with no advisory's their is a good chance it will pass next time.

So far, excluding the normal running costs, it has cost me less than £300 a year to have a car on the road. Some people pay more than that each year just to have their cars serviced or to have a clutch changed.
 

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So my 1.4HDi was stuck in limp mode. On my particular model, which has a Siemens fuel system, 4 dead glow plugs does make car go into limp mode even though, unless the temp is well below freezing, they are not needed. To get it out of limp I checked the resistance of each plug and all were open circuit. I was advise to fool the brain by fitting a 1 ohm resistor so that the brain sees a resistance and bingo cars a good runner. I bought four new Bosch glow plugs just in case and tested them all and all off them have about 1 ohm resistance. I hope to get around to replacing them but they can be a devil to get out as they can snap off very easily. Great care and patience is needed. The trick is to just move them a small bit out, then back it up and repeat etc. This clears off the carbon build up on the plug and so allows successful removal. I believe, for good access, it is best done with the engine out.
I use AVO meters, the old fashioned mechanical ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I use AVO meters, the old fashioned mechanical ones.
I wish I could say that was before my time but I cannot. The first digital meter they produced was about the same size as the black AVO analogue meters.

Even then I preferred the digital one, although I would be looking for a voltage to be approximately what it should be or no voltage at all, so accuracy was not an issue.

If the one you have has an OHMS scale at the top, the first division of which could be 0-50 ohms. You will have a hard job measuring 1.6 ohms.

If the scale is at the bottom, the first third of the scale should be from 0 to10 ohms in which case you can see the difference between 1.3 and 1.6 ohms.
 

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I wish I could say that was before my time but I cannot. The first digital meter they produced was about the same size as the black AVO analogue meters.

Even then I preferred the digital one, although I would be looking for a voltage to be approximately what it should be or no voltage at all, so accuracy was not an issue.

If the one you have has an OHMS scale at the top, the first division of which could be 0-50 ohms. You will have a hard job measuring 1.6 ohms.

If the scale is at the bottom, the first third of the scale should be from 0 to10 ohms in which case you can see the difference between 1.3 and 1.6 ohms.
Ha..I still use my 'wilkinson' volt/amp meter...to test heater plugs...i measure the 'amps' drawn...
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Hi noddy-hol.

If you have not already done so, read post No.9 as the first option is the way I am going to test mine.

Why do people quote what someone has written when it is directly above their post?
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Hi madbadandold

I used to regularly contribute to another forum and posts were often quite long. So by the time I had finished writing mine one or more people had posted a comment. To check if that was the case I would refresh the page to see if there had been any new posts before I added mine.

Also noddy-hol has a link in their signature for the forum rules. One of which basically says read the thread before you make your contribution.

As post No.9 shows how to check their resistance and how to check the current drawn by each glow plug, I can only assume that they had not read the whole thread before posting a comment.

They also do not seem to know what an AVO meter is and that it can also measure current and voltage AC/DC and depending on what model you have they can even read Capacitance.

I have edited Post No.9 so it now has the correct slot numbers. I read something somewhere about the relay having numbers. I had already looked in the bottom of the relay and even tilted it so I could use sunlight to see inside but I could not see any numbers, so the other day I used a small led torch and low and behold there was a number by each pin.

I do not think you have to take the engine out to replace the glow plugs but instead you have to remove items to allow you to have access to the back of the engine. I also believe it is more difficult on my 1.6 estate.
 

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So my big Avo Multimeter has 2 rotary switches. To check Ohms you set one to DC and the other you select the Oms ranges, the other two selections being Volts and Amps. In that Ohm range there are 3 selections , 0-10,000, 0 to 100,000 and 0 to 1,000,0000 Ohms The Ohms scale reads from 0 to 10,000 so as I require a very low figure I select that range. The scale has a varying bandwidth so in the very low resistances that I want the scale from say 0 to 10 has 0.5 Ohm increments and when I measured the new glow plugs they read 2 Ohm each. If the resistance figures you might want to measure are more to the large end of this range the increments get larger. So if say you wanted to measure what you think will be 9000 Ohm you would select the second range to give you an accurate reading as that will now be lower down the scale etc. So in effect this meter can easily display a 0.5 Ohm resistors figure.
Whilst investigating my limp mode I had quite a bit of the rear of the engine block cleared and could still not see the plugs from above and below. As I said you need to be very careful as if one snaps then basically the block might be scrapped if trying to get the remains out does not go well.
 
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