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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, hope some one can help, posting here as seem to get better info/help than on citroen forum
Bought a non starter as back garden project, Engine cut out while driving and never restarted, has had recent new exhaust and clutch, timebelt done 3yrs ago and previous owner had fitted new crankshaft sensor,new fuseboard (engine compartment) ,new coilpack and new sparkplugs, stripped back wiring from fuseboard to engine and checked for faults, none found apparently , before he got fed up and sold it too me, also told me fan was on after switching off car and draining battery so disconnected(will sort out later if i can get it going)
Engine light stays on after ignition switched off and car locked only goes off after a short wait(as bsi shuts down?)
Lexia shows fault for fan which am ignoring for moment and P3014 programme motorised throttle limits, which i may have caused jamming throttle pedal down with stick while i tried to spray easystart
in an attempt to fire up engine,(throttle butterfly and relay in fusebox now 'hammer' when ign switched on) hopefully will clear when and if i get it started, did try to fire but on own and couldnt spray and turn over at same time..
ECU is not locked
immobiliser is matched to ecu
warning sounds when keys in and door opened
fuel pump disconnected at tank and rail and powered from seperate battery ,pump operates and plenty of fuel out of pipe, pipe reconnected and pump retested under pressure , all good.with ignition on can hear pump, I have disconnected ecu and it looks nice and clean and dry with no sign of water/corrosion.
my plan is to
take off coils and plugs and check for spark
maybe buy pressure gauge and check fuel rail pressure
test camshaft sensor ?
maybe pull every fuse to see what maybe causing battery light to stay on ?
any ideas or suggestions on what else i should be doing ?
thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Have just been out to listen to fuel pump again, and its cutting in and out in time with throttle butterfly , if i disconnect the multiplug nearest bulkhead in fuseboard Marked PM1 NOIR it stops both butterfly hammering and fuel pump pulsing loudly.
I presume that underneath fuseboard is some type of relay?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Decided to check box of replaced parts in boot, found old engine fuse board (with bill from peugeot/citroen for new one £309 ouch)
new fuse board
Bsm-B5
18 fuses
old board
Bsm-B3
16 fuses
strange the part number different and the number of fuses?
also received repaired remote key today, resync'd it to car , locked and unlocked car a couple of times all ok,
tried ignition again and hammering of throttle and relay now stopped ,coincidence or linked to locking /unlocking car??
 

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Discussion Starter #4
must have been in cloud cuckoo land, took out plugs and coil and reconnected plugs outside engine to test for spark, tried to start but hammering still there which probably stopped any spark from occurring.
took apart old fuseboard/bsm and it was pristine, no damage or corrosion visible so going to put it back into car, the hope being that hammering of relay will stop which will mean its something i did to damage relay? or hammering will continue which will mean its at least before the fuse board(bsm).
if it still hammers can i disconnect throttle pedal sensor to see if hammering stops and if there was nothing else wrong with the system would that put it into limp mode(so i could check spark at plugs?)
or does a disconnected throttle pedal sensor stop car starting thus no spark,
also if this is throttle body/sensor problem can i disconnect stepper motor/throttle potentiometer to see if hammering stops and will disconnecting these stop supply to coils
basically trying to find out which sensors can be disconnected but still allow power to coils to try and narrow down my problems
need to get hammering sorted to progress with anything
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Have trawled the net and the relay is, I think, the double injection relay
Have a load of tests to try, some based on the relay being removable which in the fuseboard//bsm they are not as they are soldered into board,
but there are a couple of checks and tests of earth and supply i can check.so something to get on with
 

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Discussion Starter #6
raining most of time here so not getting a chance to do anything other than stare at laptop,,,,
havn't found any good wiring diagrams for the 2008 1.6vtx 16v petrol(TU5JP4??)
My haynes manual wiring diagrams are useless
emanuals want about 20 quid but with the possibility of this going to the scrapyard , dont really want to spend money if
i can get away with it. If anyone can help with any ignition/starting/injection wiring diags would be appreciated.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi again,
out checking earth cables this morning, nothing untoward found,
decided to disconnect fuel pump at tank and test voltage across the live and earth from engine bay with pump disconnected
with key in position 1 got 7.43v
with key at position 2 got 12.49v
when ign off, keys out got 1.79 v
Should i be reading these different voltages ?????
 

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Discussion Starter #8
have no spark at plugs and coil,
have power supply to coil on plug wire 4 with test light earthed to block, on position 2 with key, brighter on cranking and pulsing brighter and dimmer,
have correct resistance on primary coils, 0.6 ohms
have correct resistance on secondary coils 15.26kohms,
all spark plugs correct resistance,
so would appear that the 2 pulsing wires on the coil plug that go to ecu ? are not pulsing for some reason, need oscilloscope or hertz meter to test these which i dont have so plan to test resistance in wires between ecu and coil next
have correct resistance at crankshaft sensor and plan to check for 20ish mvolts ac when cranking ?? at sensor next and then check resistance of wires from crank sensor to ecu or where ever they go.
awaiting fuel pressure guage delivery just to check fuel rail pressure on schrader valve in case its low and maybe this triggering ecu to stop pulsing to coil,,
every similar non start thread that have found on different forums have generally resulted in selling the car or just not posting result and thread left unfinished so going blind at moment,
still only have motorised throttle errors and fan unit function coherance on lexia but believe these to be unrelated as mostly cause poor idling running etc not non starting .
actuating coils on lexia gives 'faulty actuation' report.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
new fuel pressure gauge arrived,
pressure gauge on rail shows 3.5 bar,
checked all wires from crank and coils to ecu for continuity and resistance, one wire higher than i thought right so re ran new cable,
car still no start,
got new multimeter with Hertz to test trigger signals to coilpack, presume just earth black lead ,probe 2 signal wires with red lead and hope i get reading??
if no trigger signals have to start thinking ecu duff ??
UNLESS theres some supply to ecu other than crank sensor which could cause no trigger signal??
 

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Discussion Starter #10
had duff battery so ordered new one,
Battery arrived, fitted, injectors all clicking when actuated(very faint, got to have very quiet conditions and good hearing!!),
managed to get into showroom mode on lexia to turn off 'economy mode'
this appears to have got rid of battery light staying on after locking car.
however having come out of lexia ,packed cables etc away, found out you cant lock car in showroom mode and display stays on, so had to put lexia back on and put car into customer mode... but learnt something !
ordered noid lights, the sort that connect to testing cables with pins attached to back probe plugs without disconnecting, thought these would be handier for testing other things ,
1st thing will test with them if suitable is backprobe the 12v supply to coilpack and back probe signal wire to see if getting signal from ecu.
if there is a signal from both signal wires(if advised not suitable will try hertz test again ) that just leaves the last return confirmation of function wire , can this be tested?? /and how ?,
have my doubts there will be any signal to coil as its a new coil and plugs in situ, but you never know.
checked live data and got 160/rpm ish, so cranksensor ok
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just been out and connected my noid lights to 4 wire coilpack,
one probe to number 1 wire, 12v supply wire , other probe to wire 4 signal wire,
lights pulsed when cranking.
then connected wire 1 and 2,
light pulsed when cranking.
wire 3 i believe is return confirmation of firing signal to ecu, can i connect between wire1 12v live and
wire 3 and expect to see noid pulse ??
with the confirmation of signal to coil (which could still be wrong signal somehow??) I have decided to further test the coil pack as lexia actuation test shows faulty actuation.
the previous owner had fitted a new hella coilpack but maybe its duff? i still have old segam coilpack .
they both tested correctly for resistance across primary and secondary coils, but does this mean they are definately ok ??
so I am going to attempt to test old coilpack at shed in back garden
i am going to connect wire1 live feed to spare battery , connect a wire to wire 3 to flash across negative terminal,
i will have coilpack connected to plugs with the plugs resting on metal garden fork stuck in garden soil, hoping this will be adequate grounding
then flash the signal wire quickly over neg terminal,
the hope being that 2 of the spark plugs will fire, then try 2nd signal wire for other 2 plugs,
will this work ??? if so at least i can test both coilpacks and rule them out
 

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Discussion Starter #12
decided to try both coil packs (old and new) with plugs in and earthed using a threaded bar clamped to all four plugs and earthed to block(all resting on engine so i could see spark at plugs), cranked(have 12v at feed and signal pulse at primary coils)
no spark at plugs using either coilpack,
so at moment unless something peculiar is going on with supply and signal, i am going to try and find a third working coilpack cheap somewhere to rule out coilpack problem...
there is a written off xsara picasso at local breakers so might ask what they will charge for coilpack
dont believe timing would come into the equation at moment with no spark ,even with timing out spark would still be there ??
 

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Discussion Starter #13
just watched a vey good video on testing a crank no starter, the guy was using scopes but gave all alternatives and also what not to do, one of the no no's was testing coil trigger signals from ecu with noid lights, they draw too much current and can fry ecu unless ecu has inbuilt protection, hope i havnt caused damage !
going to check timing tomorrow as the other thing that should be ruled out
 

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Discussion Starter #14
timing checked, cams locked ,dimple on crankshaft pully at 6 o clock roughly lining up with big blob of tippex on block
 

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Discussion Starter #15
yesterday decided to start again at plugs and work back, as no one about to crank as i watched plugs for spark (coilpack out of car plug grounded to block) thought i would check by activating coils with lexia and used phone to film,
firstly i stuck tent pin up coil secondary and and propped it just off block, on actuation got spark,
tried same with old and newer plugs in, no spark,
got new random plug ive had for about 20yrs in shed and bingo spark !
went out and got 4 new plugs ,was getting dark so stuck them back in engine and screwed coilpack down with visions in my head of it starting ,, no such luck!
this morning i took plugs out set up lexia and camera
actuated and tested one coil/plug grounded at a time, all worked.....
tested again while cranking engine,,, nothing ,no spark...
so it appears when fed on test by lexia they spark
when fed via crank/ignition they dont spark

thinking now maybe put temp feed to coil from battery to bypass ignition and see if starts ?????

ALSO while taking plugs out noticed only one plug was wet others were bone dry, shone torch down plug holes and same piston was wet other 3 dry,,,,,,
noid test on injectors showed all flashing, disconnect plugs and tested them ,all flashing, tested resistance ,all injectors 11.9 ohms which i believe is correct, so 3 blocked injectors , doubtfull.
so thinking out loud ,
could something be happening thats affecting cranking coil supply and only 3 out of 4 injectors,
even if i could do temp battery supply to coils that wouldnt help me with injectors or would it ????
more questions than answers !
 
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