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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Non starting 307 HDI 51 plate with the following results on cranking but no start:

Engine speed - 193 rpm
Camshaft/crankshaft synchronisation - Yes
Measured fuel pressure - 350 bar
Reference fuel pressure - 298 bar
Fuel flow regulator - 50%
Measured injection flow - 33.32 mg
Cylinder injector 1 flow correction - 0.02 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 3 flow correction - 0.02 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 4 flow correction - 0.02 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 2 flow correction - 0.02 mg/impulse
Diesel output delivered by the pump ref value - -70.59
Injector control error status - no fault
Measured air flow - 518 mg/impulse
Air flow setting - 431 mg
EGR value electrovalve OCR - 100%
Pre injection advance - 13
Main injection advance - 2
Coolant temp - 0
Fuel temp - 7
Atmospheric pressure – 1000



So – managed to get it started with damp start and recorded these results. Do they seem normal running at idle after a drive around to warm her up a bit

Engine speed - 803 rpm
Camshaft/crankshaft synchronisation - Yes
Measured fuel pressure - 275 bar
Reference fuel pressure - 282 bar
Fuel flow regulator - 35%
Measured injection flow – 9.02 mg
Cylinder injector 1 flow correction - -1.49 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 3 flow correction - -.069 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 4 flow correction - 0.03 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 2 flow correction – 2.32 mg/impulse
Diesel output delivered by the pump ref value – 580.39 Mm3/sec
Injector control error status - no fault
Measured air flow - 294 mg/impulse
Air flow setting - 294 mg
EGR value electrovalve OCR - 41%
Pre injection advance - 9
Main injection advance - -1
Coolant temp - 72
Fuel temp – 34
Air intake temp - 18
Atmospheric pressure – 988

Is there anything that stands out on them that could point at why the car wont start normally


One thing I did notice was that the car (inside) got warm very quickly (heater on full with fans on full), but it heated up a lot faster than normal.

Could this be a thermostat issue....?

I mean, what tells the car's ECU that its cold and needs to turn on the glow plugs...
 

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The thermostat for coolant wont affect starting mate. Also from what i hear the hdi's dont use the heater plugs unless its mega cold i.e. -5

Im not sure what the fault is but the data when running shows the injector flow correction to be a fair bit out, might be worth doing a leakoff test on the injectors?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re tried them again:

Cylinder injector 1 flow correction - -0.6 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 3 flow correction – 0.67 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 4 flow correction - -2.33 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 2 flow correction – 2.32 mg/impulse


Do you think they need cleaning - or is it something more serious
 

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Re tried them again:

Cylinder injector 1 flow correction - -0.6 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 3 flow correction – 0.67 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 4 flow correction - -2.33 mg/impulse
Cylinder injector 2 flow correction – 2.32 mg/impulse


Do you think they need cleaning - or is it something more serious
dont think you can clean them , you can get recon ones...
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Is it something that would stop the car from starting.....?

It started again from 'warm' but seemed to be slightly rough when at idle (you could hear the engine going 'up & down').

The correction values were very up and down too and none of them seemed to level out with each other. When the car was revved up, they all went back to 0.02, but quickly started to bounce around again.

Another thing I noticed was that when the car is started, you can’t rev the car up for a while (30 seconds) – you put your foot down and nothing happens (revs stay at idle)

If it is the injectors, I think you can clean them via the youtube vids. Basically carb cleaner being passed through whilst you hook them up to a 12v supply
 

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If the leakoff is massive the fuel pressure will be too low when cranking, the injectors would require repair or renewal not cleaning?

As far as im aware duff injectors will stop the engine from starting. Double check this before changing them though as its a stab in the dark from me.
 

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I think my car had values which were odd only came correct when i revved.




The sharp eyed will spot one 406 and one 307 engine both are 2.0 HDI 90HP but there is a variance.
 

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First off i would check ;
Fuel filter has it been changed? Is there air leak? Is it contaminated?
The pipe leading to and from the filter are there bubbles in there?
Is the fuel pump working?

Air filter?
MAF sensor
Crank Sensor?

If your injectors were to blame i would imagine there would be a deterioration not an intermittent fault which clears when the car warms.
Either way injectors cost £££££ i would check lots of other things first!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Indeed.

I think the PP2000 can rule out a lot of things (I think) – crank sensor, MAF sensor

I must be getting compression, as the car will go when she’s warm and start first time, it’s getting plenty of air flow – so it must be a fuel issue. Now there is pressure at fuel rail according to PP2000, so I can only conclude that it some sort of delivery issue.

With the flow correction figures bouncing around so much, I’m assuming it must be at the injectors. I just wonder if a clean will do the trick which should not cost anything.

I wonder if I can leave the ends of them soaking in Carb cleaner over night or try this as well


What harm could it do.....
 

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I would be interested in the results.

Go for it , take some pics and then post the results... it would be a good 'How to' or How not to if it goes wrong:eek:
 

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not seen that before but seems a simple way to clean them... I would have been more convinced if i had seen it before he started. As he said (apart from Damn it a lot) he had cleaned it before we started.
Had he pressurized it with some inert liquid so we could see the blockage and then see the carb cleaner i would be more willing to have a go.
As it is i cannt see any improvement, that spray could have been the same before.
 

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Thats a petrol injector he is cleaning it wont work on a HDI injector. The petrol injector he is using is rated at about 4-5 Bar fuel pressure and the HDI ones run from 250-2000 Bar and are much precision parts and have clearances of less the 5 microns in some areas so need to be done in proper calbration/cleaning rigs.

As it getting 250+ Bar when cranking i would not think the injectors are the problem. If you can find a specialist get a pressure gauge fitted to the fuel rail to check "real" fuel pressure. If they have one also get them to stick a noid light onto one of the injectors to see if the ecu is firing injectors
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think I'm running out of ideas now (as well as patience.. :mad: )

Phoned my local Peugeot dealer who have given me a price of about £80 for a diagnostic check and a 'hunt the fault' session. I figured a local back street garage will be a bit cheaper but you take your chances with them at the best of times

I'm tempted with this to be honest and I’m assuming they will be in a better position to swap a few parts over to see if they are at fault.

They won’t be able to take it for a few days so I have a bit of time to ‘tinker’ if need be.
 

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And why do you say that...
Because at cold you reported:

Coolant temp - 0
Shouldn't be 0.

The sensor might be working when the car is warm, but doesn't seem to be when cold.

I once had an old thermometer where the mercury wouldn't drop below 10. Any temperature above 10 it worked fine. I'm assuming the same principle is in effect here and the car is trying to react to what it sees is your frozen coolant.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Maybe

Is there any way to test it...? Or is it a case of buying a new one and giving it a go.

How’s about re-testing it on a warm day with PP2000 and see what temp it gives at cold (ie when I know the temp should be above 0)

What effect will it have on the car in any case. Does it switch the glow plugs on - in that case, if I put a positive supply to the glow plugs, should the car start.
 
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