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Discussion Starter #1
So I'm moving down the list of things to fix on my car and my door lock is next on the list.

Basically the key gets 'sticky' about 3/4 ways into the lock and then it just kind of pops the rest of the away in, but it won't turn. It's not as bad as it was when I bought the car last month, took me ages to even get the key to go in fully. I've oiled and greased it several times and every few days I go out and spend a few minutes trying to free it up.

It 'pops' on the way out as well, it's like there's a pin that's sticking. I'm not sure what the inside of the lock looks like, if it even has pins but that's what it feels like.

I'm thinking that the previous owner must have only used the fob and the lock is seized due to lack of use. The fob is a bit unreliable so I'm hesitant to use it to lock the car in case it doesn't work when I go to open it again. The only door that has a lock is the drivers door. ugh!

Any thoughts, tips on how to get it freed up before I take it home for christmas? I haven't had the need to lock the car yet, but I will soon.
 

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if you look at the attached picture then you will see the lock has wafers in it, the center of the wafers is where the key goes and it moves the wafers up and down so they line up, the top right drawing is with no key in and if you see the wafers go into the edge, when you put the correct key in the wafers line up like in the bottom right drawing, once the wafers line up the plug will spin to lock/unlock the vehicle.

if the wafers are seized or you are using the wrong key then you will find it hard to insert and remove the key if the wafers are not seized and its the correct key then the key will go in and out freely, also if the wafers or the key are warn then this can be the same as the wrong key

if the plug is seized then once the correct key is in the lock will be solid and not turn

to try un-seize you need to keep putting thin oil in like wd40 and key in and out loads of times and keep trying to turn both ways.

the key cut is determined by the position of the center pin on the wafers
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It's possible that it's not the correct key alright I suppose, but it definitely feels free-er than it did when I started. I got a second key and an immobiliser 'transponder receiver' (?) with the car, so I think maybe the ignition was changed, or the ecu. They come as a package from what I've seen. The comm unit was definitely changed (at least the stick was) as I don't have a rear wiper control!

The second key doesn't fit anything though. It goes easily into the ignition, halfway into the door, but won't even get part way into the glovebox lock. I'm assuming it came with a secondhand key fob and it belongs to a different car altogether, since there was also an old/broken fob in the car.

Nice one for the pic, that makes sense alright. I went through a phase of picking padlocks just to figure out how they worked!

So if it is the wrong key I'd either have to get a lock and key and carry a second key around... Or else get a whole new ignition, door lock (ecu?) set?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
i could possibly get a new lock and build it up to your lock number but u would need a key or key blade or dealer code for lock to do this
So it'd be a matter of me posting a key to you, and you'd set the wafers in a new lock to fit? Kind of like filing down the pins in a padlock to fit the key? Any idea what it would cost?

Do you mean 'possibly' as in it mightn't work? Or possibly you'd do it? :lol:

I need to get a spare key cut for myself at some stage anyway, and get a spare/new fob. My own fob 'seems' to be working most of the time now, but I have to practically point it at the window and give it a few tries before it works, even though it's got a new battery. Dodgy antenna maybe? Think I read something here about soldering the antenna in the fob it get it working properly. I've got a new soldering tip arriving from China soon so I might look into that too. The tip on my soldering iron is non-existent at the moment...
 

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So it'd be a matter of me posting a key to you, and you'd set the wafers in a new lock to fit? Kind of like filing down the pins in a padlock to fit the key? Any idea what it would cost?

Do you mean 'possibly' as in it mightn't work? Or possibly you'd do it? :lol:

I need to get a spare key cut for myself at some stage anyway, and get a spare/new fob. My own fob 'seems' to be working most of the time now, but I have to practically point it at the window and give it a few tries before it works, even though it's got a new battery. Dodgy antenna maybe? Think I read something here about soldering the antenna in the fob it get it working properly. I've got a new soldering tip arriving from China soon so I might look into that too. The tip on my soldering iron is non-existent at the moment...
if you send me the last 8 digits of your vin i will see if i can get a lock kit to build it to your key and how much its going to be

your remote key could be faulty and you can not replace the antenna for the remote locking only the antenna for the transponder, or it could be the receiver on the car (its built into the comms unit)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hey,
Just wondering if you got an update on this?

And just wondering if yourself, or someone else, can clarify something for me:

If I bought a door lock and an ignition barrel set, say on ebay, can I just swap them over, and use my old key-fob on the new key without having to reprogram everything?

I've read some mixed things, it might just be the terminology used, but people seem to mix up 'key' and 'fob'. Some say there is a transponder in the key itself (blade?, fob?), some say the copper thing in the the fob is the transponder, others say it's an ariel. The id46 transponder is supposed to be a black little box, is this the same thing? what about central locking.. is this worked by the transponder as well or a different wireless technology?

Basically I'm just asking is the key-blade just a blade? And is there any kind of transponder receiver in the ignition barrel itself that has to match the blade or the fob? Or does the signal just get sent to the bsi for verification?

Thanks, and sorry for the confusing list of questions! :)
 

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Basically I'm just asking is the key-blade just a blade? And is there any kind of transponder receiver in the ignition barrel itself that has to match the blade or the fob? Or does the signal just get sent to the bsi for verification?
Three functional parts to a [remote] key:

Key blade - allows you to turn the lock barrels

Remote transmitter board - talks to the receiver in the car to [un]lock the doors.

Immobiliser chip (depending on model might be on the circuit board or separate, stuffed in the shell case) is sensed by the car when in proximity of the ignition lock and is what allows the engine to fire (without it engine will crank but not fire).

So in your case with an iffy blade, a correctly cut replacement blade + the old innards from your current key should work without any need for programming.
Same with new barrels and matching blade - that's just mechanical stuff to rotate the locks. The electronics all remain untouched by using your existing board+immo chip.
 

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Hey,
Just wondering if you got an update on this?

And just wondering if yourself, or someone else, can clarify something for me:

If I bought a door lock and an ignition barrel set, say on ebay, can I just swap them over, and use my old key-fob on the new key without having to reprogram everything?

I've read some mixed things, it might just be the terminology used, but people seem to mix up 'key' and 'fob'. Some say there is a transponder in the key itself (blade?, fob?), some say the copper thing in the the fob is the transponder, others say it's an ariel. The id46 transponder is supposed to be a black little box, is this the same thing? what about central locking.. is this worked by the transponder as well or a different wireless technology?

Basically I'm just asking is the key-blade just a blade? And is there any kind of transponder receiver in the ignition barrel itself that has to match the blade or the fob? Or does the signal just get sent to the bsi for verification?

Thanks, and sorry for the confusing list of questions! :)
hello, no sorry i cant get a lock

you can swap the locks and still use you key, if its a remote key this is easy you just swap the blade or swap the pcb (and chip if its s none flip key)

the transponder on none flip keys is separate to the remote pcb and is a little black chip

the transponder on a flip remote is on the pcb, the gold coil is the Ariel but the chip is on the pcb.

the transponder works by the cars transceiver ring providing power and reading the chip with this

the remote locking has a separate Ariel in the vehicle


to sum up a lock is just a lock and does not read the transponder that is the job or the Ariel on the car and the transponder chip is coded to the bsi and the bsi is paired to the ecu
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks guys, that's perfect info.
It's mostly what I was assuming, but you know what the says about assumptions!

I'll pick up a lock, or a lock and ignition set somewhere, depending on availability and price. There's a surprising lack of them on ebay, scrapyard is probably my best bet.

Thanks again, much appreciated!
 

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Thanks guys, that's perfect info.
It's mostly what I was assuming, but you know what the says about assumptions!

I'll pick up a lock, or a lock and ignition set somewhere, depending on availability and price. There's a surprising lack of them on ebay, scrapyard is probably my best bet.

Thanks again, much appreciated!
you could take lock off and post me it and i could supply and cut a key for that lock and post back for £20
 

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Discussion Starter #15
you could take lock off and post me it and i could supply and cut a key for that lock and post back for £20
I'm not sure if the lock is even still working. I took it off the car last week and spend an hour or two oiling and kind of forcing it with the key and a pliers. It eventually freed up and I could insert the key freely, it had that satisfying free-flowing clicking feeling when the key was going in, but it still wouldn't turn. So it's either the wrong key or a broken wafer/pin, or both.

I could get it to turn by forcing it, but it didn't turn the bar that actually goes to the door lock mechanism. It felt like something was 'popping' inside the cylinder, and it pops back again at 180° .

I'll definitely keep that in mind though, if you think it's still do-able? I'll have a look around the scrapyards in the meantime and see if I can pick up a cheap set with spare keys etc..
 

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I'm not sure if the lock is even still working. I took it off the car last week and spend an hour or two oiling and kind of forcing it with the key and a pliers. It eventually freed up and I could insert the key freely, it had that satisfying free-flowing clicking feeling when the key was going in, but it still wouldn't turn. So it's either the wrong key or a broken wafer/pin, or both.

I could get it to turn by forcing it, but it didn't turn the bar that actually goes to the door lock mechanism. It felt like something was 'popping' inside the cylinder, and it pops back again at 180° .

I'll definitely keep that in mind though, if you think it's still do-able? I'll have a look around the scrapyards in the meantime and see if I can pick up a cheap set with spare keys etc..
If it has a broken wafer I can still cut a key and the turning the got is a clutch inside the lock and it's to make it harder to pick, I can test lock by picking it before cutting a key
 
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