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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

2.0 HDi RHS 2002

This car has four electrovalves controlling the EGR, EGR butterfly, warm air butterfly and finally the turbo wastegate.

I removed the DPF some time ago and had it removed from the ECU (using ecusafe I believe) and switched off in BSI using PP.

The warm air butterfly, when activated, directs the turbo air straight to the inlet manifold rather than it flowing through the intercooler first. The electrovalve that controls this has been goosed for a long time but I left it thinking the butterfly was only needed for regens. This butterfly is closed by default so air has always gone through the intercooler.

I recently found out the EGR butterfly electrovalve was knackered too so was permanently open. I just replaced it with a working one. (The EGR butterfly throttles the air passing from the intercooler into the inlet manifold).

So with the EGR butterfly now working I start the car and look at the measurements in PP. At idle the EGR valve is at around 67% OCR and the EGR butterfly is at 95%. I first assumed the butterfly is closing to encourage the exhaust gas to be drawn in but I rev the engine and the butterfly stays closed and the engine chokes and sputters through lack of air. This confused me for ages then I turn around look back at the screen and suddenly the EGR butterfly is at 17%OCR (mostly open) and so I can rev the car freely.

This happened at a coolant temp of around 65 deg C so now I'm thinking that at lower temps the EGR butterfly is closed and the warm air butterfly behind the inlet manifold should have been open (had it been working).

Is this how it works?
When the engine is cold should air normally bypass the intercooler and only start flowing through it at around 65 deg C?

In PP since the DPF removal from the ECU most of the live measurements on the DPF page are zero as they no longer apply. The warm air butterfly is on this page and it always stays at 0% OCR (meaning it's closed).

Does anyone know, despite this zero reading, will the warm air butterfly still be getting signals to open and close depending on coolant temp?
Is it possible to check this with a bog standard multimeter or would I need an oscilloscope?

I know I could just get a new electrovalve and try it but they are £50 new and like gold dust in the breakers around here, already got two from yards and they were both knackered.

I just rebuilt the engine and have been getting some pretty serious knocking on acceleration under load. After swapping around some electrovalves (only two of the four worked) so the working ones are on the turbo and EGR valve the knocking has all but disappeared so I guess the knock was due to fuel/air mixture problems. I'm hoping replacing the final two electrovalves will eliminate the slight knock at lower revs, and once I've found the turbo air leak that seems to have just magically appeared it should be good as new! (me thinks that left over heat shield after the rebuild is coming back to bite me :()

P.S. Anyone have a couple of verified working electrovalves (solenoids) they wish to part with for a small fee? :)
 

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if you have planet you can run tests on them to see what ones working and whats not,

with mine same as yours RHS i removed the rear pipes and installed the bottom intercooler pipe from a 110 non fap model C5/406 and the top inlet this the only one i could get at the time was the 406 with the air doser!
i would look into getting one from a 406 that has no air doser down the line

with this done it made my car simple to work on as less chance of a boost leaks and how you get the clamps behind the engine is crazy so i wanted to
cut them out plus as i removed the FAP i never needed them anymore so this would free up the air doser in the front and the rear so ive two spares electro valves next i removed the EGR and blanked it off so really i have only one electro valve for the turbo untill i noticed that the rear doser was not mapped out with ECU safe so i had to plug this back in so i could get power back when it was cold
as you know this opens up and the intake port closes in the front so in basic mode you have a 90bhp model till the car heats up and needs the intercooler.

over the last few weeks when i had time i looked into ecu mapping and i had found away to turn the EGR and INTAKE port off so the ecu does not used them so you can leave them unplugged so ive kept this for spares ive missed placed these or i would send you a few over.

you know that you can get them from most HDi engines (1.4 1.6 2.0 2.2)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hey CMax,

Thanks for that, its exactly the info I was looking for. I remember you describing the pipework mod in some PM's several months ago, think I'm gonna try and find the pipes and do the same. I have several questions for you but am off out to get over a tequila/vodka hangover by drinking some more of it :)
I'll be back in touch tomorrow to pick your brains.

Thanks mate.
 

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Pick away and i'll see if i can answer them! lol

just to add something about the vac lines not being used it turns out that the 90bhp does not have a vacuum reservoir like the one we have on ours that has two vacuum outs for the turbo and reservoir on the gearbox,


so am going to try and get a line like the one on the 90bhp that only has one vacuum and use this for the turbo, means we dont need to block the ends with bolts and as a bonus only one vacuum tube for the turbo and more simple to work on

:thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Right, drunken revelries are over, time to get back to work :(

First off I put my two good solenoids on the two butterfly valves, hooked up PP and started the car from cold. Front flap was closed (95% OCR) but the engine revved freely so this confirms what you said about the rear butterfly still working for cold starting as it was clearly open during this test. Despite this PP still showed 0% OCR for it in the DPF measurements screen so either ECUSafe or removing the DPF in the BSI results in this lack of feedback in PP. I suspect the latter.

Going to try and find a breakers with 406/C5 HDI today. Is it just the hard plastic bottom pipe, small rubber pipe that attaches to the turbo, and the alloy inlet elbow that I need? Or do I also need to pick up the two rubber pipes that go to and from the intercooler?

Do you notice much difference to cold starting and shutdown (engine shudder) with the butterflies removed and mapped out?

When they are mapped out are they removed completely from the equation as far as fuel/air mixture is concerned? I'm trying to troubleshoot some fuelling issues which I think are related to low boost and therefore not enough air to burn the fuel effectively. On the one hand this mod will make things much simpler as you said but I'm a little concerned it may complicate my troubleshooting if I'm not convinced that the changes will not have any adverse effect.

Are you able to assist me with mapping out the EGR and butterflies? I don't mean do it for me but could use some pointers. I assume you used WinOLS? I've read about the EGR "switch" where you just have to change a 001 to 000 in two places in the file. Is this how you did it? What about the air dosers?

Finally, maybe you will have some thoughts on my turbo issues.

Basically, since a full engine rebuild which I finished just over a week ago the car has started first time every time. It also has 4 recon injectors in it so they should be fine.
Problem is, on acceleration in all gears I get an engine knock which I believe is a fuel/air mixture problem (only under load, never at idle). Sounds like a petrol pinking noise, rises with revs, disappears at high revs circa 2.8krpm and up. It's not a pre-injection noise that disappears at 3.2krpm its a pretty severe knock which I'm sure is combustion related.
EGR valve wasn't working (blocked it a while ago but unblocked it on rebuild for troubleshooting purposes as it is not yet mapped out) so I checked the solendoids and found out it was always closed. Putting a good solenoid on the EGR improved the knock greatly with knocking only occurring at very low revs. Engine was so much better and my plan was to get the two dosers working correctly hoping it would sort out the remaining knock.
I'm not entirely sure why the EGR would solve this knock as I always assumed fuel was injected based on the fresh air flow measured by the MAF which should be accurate regardless.

What I think happened here is that the combustion was improved for whatever reason and the result was an increase in exhaust gas which in turn generated a better boost which in turn made it run better. That's my theory anyway. :)

Two days later car sounded bad again and I suspect a hole in turbo air duct as I forgot to put a heat shield back during the rebuild :rolleyes:

Consider that the background info, I think the crux of my problems is a poor boost which is why I'm liking the idea of simplifying with 406 parts.

I've never had very great boost on this car. It always seems to be about 200mBar below reference at lower revs and only when revs reach 2.5k plus does it often (but not always) hit reference values. I think the turbo is OK, no oil coming from it, it's not noisy (except when there's a boost leak) and it is capable of boosting to 2000mbar at like 2.8 - 3k revs. I just don't understand why it seems to boost late and low.

I should probably do a pressure test on the pipework and intercooler but don't have the kit. I have however used a pressure gauge in the MAP (injection calculator) sensor hole in the intercooler to run some comparisons and it seems the MAP sensor is reporting the correct values. Also the turbo solenoid was brand new about a year ago and works fine.

Do you have any readings from your own car I could use for comparison? I would be real interested to see the boost readings for a known good turbo being driven up through the gears just so I have some solid reference for comparison.

Also, what %OCR values do you get for your turbo? Mine sits at 88% for 99% of the time but never goes higher, I find it strange that it doesn't show 99 or 100% OCR but maybe this is just by design. The solenoid pulls a vac of 18 ins Hg on the turbo actuator, my vac pump pulls a solid 25 ins Hg and entire vac system has been checked for leaks. Turbo actuator has also been checked with a hand vac pump and moves freely, wastegate fully closed at about 15 ins Hg.

Really appreciate your help with this, feel free to pick and choose what to answer I know I tend to write an essay for every post but these are the questions I need to find answers to and some of this stuff can get a little confusing. :confused:
 

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i will get back to reading this fully later on as i skiped a few parts as am just getting ready to head out lol,

if you can give me a day or two i will take some snap shots of mine in planet and send you them over,

as for the pipes you need the top alloy one without the doser and the bottom pipe from a c5/406 in my view the 406 is the one to try and get reason being any c5 ive seen has the doser on the top elbow,

yea it was winols and you have the it change the numbers from 01 to 00 :thumb:

for some reason the rear doser flap cant be turned off its only the egr and top elbow doser that can with that change tho am still learning so i think i could get it just takes time with testing ect
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi CMax_307,

So I've done a little work since my last post...

I haven't been able to find the 406 parts yet (except for £78 which was too much for me) so have proceeded with the standard turbo pipework.

Checked all turbo pipework again and replaced the blanking plate for the EGR.
Used WinOLS to map out the EGR valve. EGR and EGR butterfly now show 0% OCR in planet.

Unplugged both and got an open circuit error on the EGR butterfly.
Looking at some posts on ecuedit.com I think I may have the solution for the EGR butterfly from reading a thread that I believe you started here.

I'm assuming you mapped out the EGR butterfly by changing the switch in red below as the post suggests the 5th switch is for the intake port shut off...

001 001 000 000 001 000 001 000 001 048

Is that how you did it?


Also, were you able to get any readings for the boost from your car?
Ideally I would like to see turbo and MAF measurement screenshots/video for varying revs at idle and under load but anything you could supply would be awesome :)

Thanks
 
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