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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello.
I have a problem with the braking system of my peugeot 206 1.4hdi, I feel the car braking stronger on the rear wheels than the front wheels. When I brake I feel the car lowering in the rear.
Already replaced the master cylinder and the brake fluid but the problem remained.
I looked for a proportioning valve on the rear axle but it does not exist in my car. Anyone know if there is any proportioning valve in this braking system (ABS brand ATE)?
Has anyone had this problem and know how to solve it?
Thank you
 

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There should be a compensator bolted to the rear axle - has a largish spring attached to it which usually breaks and the unit itself with the lever on also seizes up (I assume from memory that it has drum brakes on the rear).
I changed a rear axle on a 1.4 hdi a few years back and had to un-seize everything before fitting
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There should be a compensator bolted to the rear axle - has a largish spring attached to it which usually breaks and the unit itself with the lever on also seizes up (I assume from memory that it has drum brakes on the rear).
I changed a rear axle on a 1.4 hdi a few years back and had to un-seize everything before fitting
There are drum brakes on the rear, but there is no compensator on the rear axle. I took these photos. Does versions with ABS not require compesador?



 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You might want to check the front pads are sliding in the caliper hanger bracket. They have a tendency to stick/seize.
About 1 month ago I changed the front shock absorbers and as this problem existed I visually checked the brakes and saw that the pads are not sliding.
I have been thinking and I am beginning to suspect that the caliper slider pins and caliper piston could be with movement problems and need grease. Makes sense? Should they give this symptom?

 

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If only rear brakes are working, weight is transferred to the rear when the brakes are applied, so yes, it does make sense.
 

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If only rear brakes are working, weight is transferred to the rear when the brakes are applied, so yes, it does make sense.
You mean front. Most of the braking is done by the front brakes. Hence why cars dip at the front under braking.

Weight shifts rearwards under acceleration.
 

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About 1 month ago I changed the front shock absorbers and as this problem existed I visually checked the brakes and saw that the pads are not sliding.
I have been thinking and I am beginning to suspect that the caliper slider pins and caliper piston could be with movement problems and need grease. Makes sense? Should they give this symptom?

Hi...I would strip and check the caliper pins and also make sure the pads can move in the carrier.....bleed the front brakes...how did you visualy check the pads were not sliding?
 

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No, Ian is right, you did not read the issue properly.
I did. A cars nose should dip when decelerating/braking. Not go up.

So either the front brakes aren't working or the rears are being over applied.

Or a very long shot is the front suspension is too hard causing improper weight shift.
 

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Hi....or pop down to your local m.o.t place and have a rolling brake check done...you may even find as you changed the shock/springs you may have more support on the front as before it used to sag alot on the when braking....what happens if you do an emergency stop...that will prove if the front brakes are working...be carefull tho...
 

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Brakes are usually balanced 60-70% front to 40-30% rear. Load level valves are there to open the more weight is added over the rear axle.

You don't want 50-50 on an unladen car as the rears will lock up like applying the handbrake.

Cars with ABS aren't usually fitted with load level valves because by virtue ABS systems sense 'lock' and apply appropriate pressure.

Have you done a full system bleed in the last couple of years? Brake fluid absorbs moisture and is advised to be changed every few years.

Who fits the pads and do they force the piston back with or without opening the bleed nipple? Some car ABS pumps are very temperamental when fluid is back flushed through them (I've never had issues(touch wood)). Could be air pocket in front lines of ABS pump.

You get better brake response if the car doesn't dip at the nose. Dipping increases braking distance even if only by a meter or so.

Check pads slide in carrier, check caliper slides on pins (refit without pads) manually slide check for smoothness. Do a full bleed.

Like another post said somewhere on the forums when everything checks out and you have a pedal take it to a gravel/dirt road and if safe to do so at 20-30 stamp on brakes (as in emergency stop). If the car still dips at the rear after doing all the steps I'd say it's more than likely the ABS unit. Hopefully it's not
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi....or pop down to your local m.o.t place and have a rolling brake check done...you may even find as you changed the shock/springs you may have more support on the front as before it used to sag alot on the when braking....what happens if you do an emergency stop...that will prove if the front brakes are working...be carefull tho...
when I do an emergency brake the rear wheels are the first to block
 

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Hi...that should not happen..you have a problem you need to sort out.....is there any braking effort on the front wheels when the front is jacked up and someone presses the brake pedal ?
 

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when the engine is off and the car is stationary if you pump the pedal does it go hard? Also if you keep your pedal pressed does it slowly go down when the engine is off and stationary after pumping?

Have you over adjusted the rear brake shoes?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Today I inspected the components of the front brakes and put new grease on the pins.
The pads are sliding normally.
I did not disassemble the piston because I was able to move it by hand and because there is no leak.
I used the brake cleaner on pads and disks to remove any dirt.
The brake fluid had already been replaced last week when I replaced the master cylinder and bleed all the wheels. The front pads were changed a few months ago and I do not remember if it was from that moment that the problem started or if it already existed and only continued to get worse.
Who changed the pads was the mechanic and I do not know the method that used to push the pistons.
After all that I did today nothing has changed, it continues to brake the rear wheels more than the front ones. I feel the front-rear balance is at 50-50 but sometimes (+/- 10% of the brakes and if it is not an emergency braking) the brakes work well (60-40 or 70-30). If it is an emergency braking (rough) it works almost always badly. I can not figure out why.




 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
when the engine is off and the car is stationary if you pump the pedal does it go hard? Also if you keep your pedal pressed does it slowly go down when the engine is off and stationary after pumping?

Have you over adjusted the rear brake shoes?
the rear brakes have self adjusting.

I just finished the two tests

test 1:
Engine off
1º pump - normal
2º pump - normal
3º pump - a little hard
4º pump - Hard
5º pump - very hard

test 2:
Engine on
Pedal pressed
Engine off
pedal maintained the same position
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hi...that should not happen..you have a problem you need to sort out.....is there any braking effort on the front wheels when the front is jacked up and someone presses the brake pedal ?
yes there is some braking force on the front, but insufficient
 

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Just been reading all the above again,
Master cylinder changed - was it the same as some models have/don't have a brake compensator fitted to the underside of the master cylinder, if you've still got it compare it
Checking on service box 1.1 ltr don't have it fitted on the master cylinder and the likes of the 1.4 hdi and 2.0ltr do
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Just been reading all the above again,
Master cylinder changed - was it the same as some models have/don't have a brake compensator fitted to the underside of the master cylinder, if you've still got it compare it
Checking on service box 1.1 ltr don't have it fitted on the master cylinder and the likes of the 1.4 hdi and 2.0ltr do
This problem already existed before I changed the master cylinder. The new master cylinder has the same look as the old ATE brand.
For the looks, there is no brake compensator.

 
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