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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

I am part way through my cam belt change and am looking for a few opinions on the timing.

I have pinned the flywheel with a 7.5mm drill bit (8mm just wouldnt fit) but the cam doesnt line up:

Excuse the pink mirror but here is a pic of the cam and this is as close as it gets with the flywheel pinned:


Now even with the flywheel pinned, I can still turn the engine slightly by a couple of mm using the crank. Is this normal?

And lastly there appears to be a second timing hole in the flywheel about 2 inches along. Anyone ever seen this before?



Cheers
Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Been back out to the car and noticed some tip-ex marks on the fuel pump pulley that dont quite line up and another on the cam pulley that doesnt seem to line up to anything.

I suspect that someone has done the job before without pinning the flywheel and/or cam.

Car seems to drive well apart from some turbo lag. Is it possible my timing is out though?



 

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Discussion Starter #3
Oh and the car has the DMF to SMF conversion with Valeo parts. Would this make any difference?

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Have you tried lining up the crank pulley and the camshaft pulley. There should be marks on these and on the engine to ensure they are aligned properly.

When this is done, re-check the fly wheel and see if the 'locking' hole you used is still lining up and you can still lock it with a drill bit.

I may be wrong, but i don't think the fuel pulley has to be aligned to anything and can run free, so its marks may not be relevant. Like i say i'm guessing about this, so try and check first. The tippex marks may have been put on by an 'over cautious' previous owner and are not needed.

Also - what model and year is your car?
 

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As far as I'm aware, the fuel pump doesn't need to be timed, certainly didn't need timing on my 2.0L HDI 90 so any marks on it's pulley would be irrelevant. There should either be an oversized slot for the woodruff key in the crank pulley or slotted holes in the cam pulley to allow for tensioning the belt without disturbing the timing. Looks to me that the belt was fitted then retensioned without locking the cam and/or crank and the timing is now out a tooth or two.

I'd retime it locking both the cam & crank and retension the belt then lock either the crank or cam pulley bfore removing the locking pins.

As for the extra hole, I've come across this on a petrol engined (think it was a 206 or 207 CC) but the engine wouldn't run if you used the wrong timing hole as the pistons would hit the valves. There is a minimum amount of play when the locking pins are in place though wouldn't like to say to what degree.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the replies, I am going to carry on with it today so shall take these comments on board.

So, it does look possible then that the timing may be out. If it's been retensioned without locking pins in that would explain why the cam slots wont line up now.

In that case it sounds like I wont be able to lock the flywheel and cam before removing the old belt. I'm thinking then that I'll have to lock the flywheel, remove the belt and then move the cam ever so slightly in order to pin it and get the timing back as it should be. Does that sound ok to do?

I shall also check crank pulley as suggested. Cheers

Car is a 307 2.0 HDI 110 by the way.
 

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Have you tried lining up the crank pulley and the camshaft pulley. There should be marks on these and on the engine to ensure they are aligned properly.
There are no timing marks on the pulleys to line up. Timing position is done with pins that go through the cam pulley into the head and the other through a hole in the engine block into the flywheel.

I would turn the engine by hand (using a socket on the crankshaft pulley nut) and lock the flywheel in place, making sure the cam shaft hole is close to the hole in the head. Remove the belt then lock the camshaft in place. If the camshaft sprocket has three bolts then slacken them & rotate it away from the tensioner otherwise slacken the crankshaft nut and rotate the pulley away from the tensioner. Refit the belt and tension it up. Tighten the bolts or crank nut.

Remove the pins and manually turn the engine over by hand at least two complete revolutions to make sure the pistons don't hit the valves, you will know if they do as you can feel and hear it when it happens. If all is well fit anything else you have taken off and cross your fingers as you try to start it.
 

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Whoever tipexed the pump did not know what they are doing pumps no longer need timed

Pin the cam and the crank the pin holes should line up then swap the belt simples

If the timing was far out your engine would not have started

Some engines have 3 bolts on cam pulley to adjust timing if it has these you loosen them pin cam and crank refit and tension the belt THEN retighten the cam bolts but your pic shows the fixed type this should have a slotted crank pulley to take up any adjustment same as above but done at the crank it probably was not done correctly last time.

All flywheels seem to have 2 holes drilled near each other but your pin will only fit in 1 of them as they are offset.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Interesting. This is starting to make more sense now.

I do indeed have the later fixed type of cam pulley.

Thanks for replies. I am going back out to crack on now.

Pete
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well it almost lined up. I pinned the flywheel with a 7.5mm drill as 8mm just wouldnt fit.

Anyway, it definately locked but cam was still slightly out as per above pic.

I've removed the belt and turned cam ever so slightly and pinned it.

I cant see how the crank takes up the slack when tensioning the belt? I much preferred the old style with three bolts on the cam pulley like in my 306. Well I'll hopefully work it out after lunch.

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Discussion Starter #13
yh crank pulley is off and theres a gap of about 2mm in the left of the woodruff.

Haynes says to put a 2mm pin in it?

Pete
 

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The pin in the slot is just to hold the pulley in the correct place until the belt is on. You then remove the pin from the slot to tension the belt and when the belt is done and the tensioner fastened, bolt up the crank pulley to hold it in place. The engines with the three bolts in the cam pulley will have the tensioner btween the water pump and crank (if I remember correctly), Those with the wide keyslot in the crankshaft have the tensioner on the other side of the engine and wouldn't take up the slack with the rotating cam pully due to the crankshaft being locked by the timing pin. It makes sense when you think about it a little.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Yes once I put the pin in it made sense to me.

Well, the belt is on and tensioned with new water pump too.

Cheers for all the comments.

Pete
 

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The pin in the slot is just to hold the pulley in the correct place until the belt is on. You then remove the pin from the slot to tension the belt and when the belt is done and the tensioner fastened, bolt up the crank pulley to hold it in place. The engines with the three bolts in the cam pulleu will have the tensioner btween the water pump and crank (if I remember correctly, Those with the wide keyslot in the crankshaft have the tensioner on the other side of the engine and wouldn't take up the slack with the rotating cam pully due to the crankshaft being locked by the timing pin. It makes sense when you think about it a little.
The wide key slot ones work the same way. If you cannot time/tension then often the last belt was incorrectly fitted. With the crank and cam pinned, if you cannot get the belt timed and tensioned then often you need remove belt and turn the bottom pulley back/fowards on key slot as applicable and try again, do not unpin the crank/cam as that throws out timing
 
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