Peugeot Forums banner

1 - 20 of 69 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As the title states my 307 wont rev up. If I squeeze the hand grenade primer a few times it will rev right to the red line but then goes straight back into limp. There are no engine management lights or fault codes. I have a Siemens injection system so no lift pump although the in tank sender has been replaced. Upon replacing the lift pump I realized that there was no o ring seal on the fuel sender. A friend of mine told me that it would not affect the car and it is only there to stop fuel spilling out.

Basically I would just like to confirm this. From what I can tell it's like there isn't enough vacuum to feed the HP pump and I would just like to know what this might be? I have replaced the fuel filter. I doubt it is my HP pump as squeezing the hand grenade wouldn't do anything to aid that sort of pressure. But it does seem to be that there is a problem pulling fuel up from the tank.

Thanks for reading and I would basically like to know if this would be the fact the tank is not pressurized or whether it is something to do with the vaccum coming from the low pressure pump at fault or maybe a pressure regulator. Although not getting any codes on Planet. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,601 Posts
Check the pipe between the filter and the main fuel pump as it rubs on the metal high pressure pipe and causes problems when it starts drawing air in the hole made
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the quick reply. I will have to check it out in the morning. I have noticed the occasional air bubble in the clear plastic pipe but in the one on the offside of the car that seems to disappear into the back somewhere. The problem started as a cold start issue and lack of power in the higher gears. Recently it dropped into limp mode and then started to stay in limp mode more often until the point I'm at now. I'm confused as to why sometimes it would just jump out of limp mode though when driving. Is this likely happening when there are points of pure fuel and not air. Or is the ECU doing a lot of work here in keeping the car in limp mode to prevent running lean?

PS: If it helps when I put my car under any load I get around 15-20 MPG and highest I get is 40 in 6th at 50 mph with no load. Also when I rev the car sometimes there is a bit of a "metal scraping" sound in the brief moments when it musters up a full rev.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I've taken the reservoir off when I checked my fuel pressure regulator. I already had the problem before this so I don't think it's that. I did worry at first if I'd put them back in the right order as they came off when I moved it out of the way. Looking at the length and shape of them though I believe I put them back the right way. Would it be apparent if I had gotten them mixed up? This is just precautionary because like I said I had the problem before this but I'll double check them to make sure and examine the pipes themselves. Are there any markings to distinguish which one goes where? and can these reservoirs be sprayed through with something to clean out any potential blockage hampering vacuum flow?

PS: I know "metal scraping" sounds a bit vague, it's nothing like bottom end knocking. sounds like something catching every now and then as it spins up. My friend mentioned something to do with one of the Aux pulleys as it wasn't as prominent with the AC off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Update*

Checked over the lines from the filter and couldn't find any obvious air leaks.

After removing the 2 lines from plastic cap things on the intake. On idle the top line had a steady vacuum, enough to hold against my finger but the bottom line had nothing. Could this be my issue? and if so what can I do about blowing through it or tracing it to a leak? Can't see much of where anything goes as you can imagine she's tight to work on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,601 Posts
Thats normal you need a gauge to test the level of vacuum 1 comes from the brake vacuum pump this is the one you feel suction on the other is fed suction from the reservoir so if both are on the reservoir the one not having anything would then have vacuum BUT that only tells you there is vac in the feeds it does not mean the parts fed by vacuum are getting it you need to gauge every feed pipe to see if solenoids are working properly.

Sounds like you may have more than 1 potential problem you just need to be methodical checking things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Just been out for a test drive. I pulled over and took the bleed valve out of the top of the fuel filter and nothing came out, I then primed it a bit until some fuel did come out and with the bulb squeezed in I re-attached it to the filter. I don't know if what happened next is as a result of doing this because as if by magic when I touched the out pipe from the filter towards the HP pump it died and took a while to restart. After it eventually restarted it would rev up fine so I took it for a spin and it seemed ok. At least it was out of limp mode. A couple miles down the road and back into limp mode again. After all the abuse from other drivers and the fact that every 10 mile test drive is a quarter tank of fuel. I'm about ready to scrap this think and get a bus pass. 4 months down the line and still no closer to solving the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
i may have missed it, but the hand grenade is on the left of the fuel filter housing...i wonder if the housing itself has a leak? maybe the O ring between the filter cap and housing has perished?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Already replaced the fuel filter and installed a new rubber o-ring. I'm confused because now squeezing it doesn't always let the car rev up. What I keep coming back to is a scraping noise around 3k rpm that seems to go away when it's not in limp mode. Also when I'm under load my MPG skyrockets down to about 15. I understand that if my car is not getting adequate fuel supply it will run lean and and therefore use more fuel over all as it's less efficient. But after driving it and just feeling it out it feels more like it's bogging down and over fuelling? Is it possible that a dozer or something is sticking sometimes and not allowing full air flow? I can hear my turbo spooling up sometimes if it allows me to rev up enough and the intercooler pipe bulges nicely. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm at my wits end with this thing.

PS: It's intermittent as one minute it can barely set off on a flat bit of road and when the revs come back it's at about 85% overall power.
I only ask because when I took the top intercooler hose off the car it was sucking in air hard from the intake. I put this down to it being a normal process but shouldn't I be running air from the bottom pipe only on tick over and not also through the intercooler?

PPS: Not sure if this is worth mentioning or not but when I removed both vacs from the doser earlier it made no difference to the car ticking over or revving at all. But I don't know if it is supposed to at tick over or not, same with the intercooler lol. Sorry I'm new to dervs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I haven't got access to one right now. I've used it before but had trouble getting the car to talk to it because it has had a replacement ECU at some point. I have to test by Engine/Gearbox, Diesel and then quote my RHR ecu to get it to work, and even then it wont always reference it. is it possible that I'm over-boosting without an EML? The car has always been down on power from day one and before this latest saga with limp mode these were my exact symptoms.

car would hesitate when setting off but pull like a train in first and second.
Engage 3rd gear at 70 and nothing, then some hesitation and it would keep pulling. But the higher I got into the gears and rev range the slower it got.
Doesn't like to start from cold.

Replaced:
Fuel filter
in tank sender
leak off pipes from injectors
maf.

Another issue was the cold start and the car not getting up to temperature.

Checked on planet, cooling circuit bypass solenoid valve & fuel cap sensor.
Replaced thermostat housing. runs nice now around 85c.
Whatever this problem is it must be something silly as it comes and goes at will but without even a flicker of EML lights. just one minute she revs up and the next she doesn't go anywhere. If it's worth mentioning sometimes when I rev to 3000 and then floor it it bogs down and you have to lift off to increase the revs. Other times it stays around 3k revs but you can hear the turbo spooling up insanely. (although most of the time it just bogs down)

PS: Just in case this helps here are the faults when I first got the car. They are no longer there besides the fuel cap sensor but just in case it's the problem and they just wont show up here they are

ENGINE ECU
Permanent fault. Intake air temperature signal: Temperature change coherence.
Permanent fault. Intake air temperature signal: Short circuit to positive or circuit open.
Permanent fault. Flowmeter signal coherence
Permanent fault. Additive system: Fuel filler cap sensor fault *
Permanent fault. Cooling circuit bypass solenoid valve circuit: Short circuit between two wires or short circuit to positive (+)
Intermittent fault. Fuel pressure signal: Pressure to low.

After changing thermostat housing and cleaning fuel filler cap and checking magnets. All faults cleared except cap sensor, now intermittent. Or was last time I checked.

Thought it might help in reference to my issues with the car. Also blanked egr made no difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Can an intake temp sensor really give all these issues without triggering an EML light? it would help explain cold start issues. I also invested in a cam and crankshaft sensor if you think any are worth replacing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,601 Posts
You need planet after checking all your vacuum pipes you wont cure this throwing parts at it you need to see what the computer is seeing in live data codes only tell you what has happened live data tells you what IS happening
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I have no idea how to run live data on my car. I struggle half the time just to get it to find the ECU. I read somewhere that certain sensors related to the EVAP system can affect this as the car will not communicate until said checks have been passed. Thought I found the problem, removed the IAT Sensor and it was completely coated in black gunk, cleaned it off, took it for a spin, out of limp mode and pulling like a train. 30 seconds of fun later BANG back in to limp mode. I've used planet dozens of times to try and find what is at fault with no luck. Like you said it probably needs live data to get to the bottom of this one but I'm in North Wales and don't know any members around here who could help me with this. I've been to 5 garages with no luck so I'd rather not get messed around there again. This scraping noise is really bugging me at the 3k rpm mark. Also I popped the top intercooler pipe off my Intake and noticed my Doser is wide open but moves freely to touch? I thought this was supposed to be closed default?

PS: The closest I got to running live data was when I ended up on a page that showed my injector flow rates and noticed injector 3 was around 130% on idle the rest were all at around 98% but this levelled out to all at the same volume when reved up, I changed injector 3 but no difference in running of the car noticed afterwards. Could this be electronically controlled? Like something to do with the car trying to force a regen?


@reliable406 If I take my partners car over to my brothers and borrow his planet can you help me make sense of results and how to go about testing it ie driving around or just on tick over. I assume it's under Parameter measurements. I'd good with computers just new to Planet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,601 Posts
Yes we are happy to help dozers only close to bypass intercooler when regening and at shut off these are controlled by the vacuum i keep refering to you NEED to know vacuum is going everywhere as this controls turbo and if not right boost will shut down.

You need to go into parameters 1 and show fuel pressure at idle and 3k revs also airflow but just screenshot all readings

injector you mentioned was not an issue and peugeot number in reverse so chances are you changed no 2 not no 3 :)

Fact ecu was changed irrelevant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Ok ran Standard parameter check on everything and from what I can see everything is fine on tick over and at 3k rpm, however, after checking and taking pictures of everything at idle and rpm I then went back and had a look at the fuel circuit, at idle my measure and requested pressure is fine at 267/267 bar. 525/525 bar at 3k rpm, pressure reg 15% flow reg 23% at idle and 21% and 28% at 3k RPM. I will have to check again tomorrow with some guidance but here's what I noticed when I asked the car to rev up for me properly.

Fuel pressure requested around 900 bar at about 70% WOT but only delivered about 400, then shot right down to 100 and back up. but before it had no problem giving me 525 bar of pressure. Please please please tell me this is a knackered FPR and not my HP Pump.

Hope I'm not breaking any rules here, and sorry for the crappy music but thought it would be better to take a video of what happens, also note how low the pressure gets as I call for full throttle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
*Update* I have changed my fuel pressure regulator today and there is no difference. I checked on peugeot planet and there are no fault codes coming up at all. High Pressure Pump?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,601 Posts
This is why you need live data readings you would never have known that was happening without doing that.

Something is causing the drop in pressure it could possibly be the pump they are known to fail but something as simple as a leak on the fuel rail could cause it too as it can sometimes only leak under pressure injectors too can leak under high pressure but they leak internally back to the tank.

The grinding noise MIGHT be coming from the pump if it is then chances are your pump is the problem BUT if it is then the filings could clog the injectors that is worse case scenario though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Thanks for all the advice, I've been looking at Pumps and there's a high pressure valve on the pump as well which is prone to failure? Could be why the pressure comes and goes so intermittently. I think I'll be safer changing the whole pump though as I can't get info on the pump regulator all I get info on is FPS when looking for it.

If I post my VIN up would you be able to tell me what the part number is for my HP Pump? and any idea if it's an engine out job? I understand we'll have to lock off the timing but can I get it in and out without lifting the entire engine out?. Thanks.


VIN: VF33CRHRH83769975

Friend just told me there's a way to remove the pump without engine out or even belt off completely :)

PS: Found this but waiting on confirmation as to whether it fits or not, although it says it's the same part number.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=272422234785&fromMakeTrack=true#ht_1203wt_1037
 
1 - 20 of 69 Posts
Top