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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys thought I'd make a new Topic considering the progress with the car.

Basically I've been under the impression that it's a the vanes sticking but after a few days of driving around, besides the occasional bit of extra power the car doesn't feel much different than when I first got it. Is it normal for the problem to get worse before it gets better? It's been like this for months and only now am I actually getting any faults related to the Turbo. Here's what I have so far. Turbo comes in sometimes when it should at 1500 rpm or so, most of the time it's around 3000 and sometimes not at all, or it will delay then spool a bit, flat spot and spool some more but way high in the rev range.

Basically I would just like to know what's the easiest way to get to the actuator to wiggle it by hand, and do I have to loosen a nut off to do this or just get my hand down the back somehow and push it up and down?

Last few days I've been getting
P0229 Over-boost
P0234 Under-boost
P0238 Short circuit to positive

They cleared ok but these 2 came back after a drive

P2562 & P2563 Valve too distant to reference
And after pushing hard up a hill before got another MIL light again Anti Pollutant. I'm assuming it's P0234 Under boost.

Is this typical of sticking vanes? each time it logs a fault I checked F6 data and it shows turbo positon repeat -76% and IAT at -49 Degrees?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
OK some news. Still need a good run but I cleaned the turbo solenoid and now there is no delay in between gear changes. Turbo still a little late but should help the vanes out. The only one I have yet to clean now is the old turbo solenoid currently in place of the egr purge solenoid. I'll clean it later and update after a run but I think I'll be replacing it with a proper egr purge for good measure
 

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If you take scuttle off, you can reach down behind engine and feel the actuator moving up and down when you apply vacuum to the system. If you plug a manual vac pump directly into the vac feed to the turbo (one of the lines on the turbo solenoid but be careful you don't pull the pipe off the turbo end), you can feel if there is linear response (i.e. no sticking of the mechanism as you increase vac pressure). If you have it on live data at the same time (Keyon engineoff) you can see the ouput of the turbo repeat position sensor, which should go between 0-100 roughly in line with how you feel it moving.

-76% of turbo position repeat on PP is either a majorly f****d turbo repeat sensor, or dodgy wiring (if the MINUS is indeed correct). Mine's failing slowly (only goes between about 35 and 100 now) but never seen a negative!

Worth watching live data as you drive (if you can get a willing helper). If turbo repeat is off from turbo reference notably then you know you still have a control problem. I THINK (but never proved) that turbo valve open cycle should roughly match the turbo position + repeat as well if the system is working right (for example if valve open cycle is 100% but turbo position only 50% then it is trying to compensate for inadequate vacuum)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I was thinking it was some kind of failsafe as I have a new iat sensor and good wiring and have contact cleaned everything and that also popped up at -49 degrees. I assumed if the vanes stick open and it reads it should be closed it would be a negative amount ie, 76% away from expected? Who knows. It's running a lot better after cleaning the solenoid. Might have to have a look at the vac reservoir.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Think my turbo is on its way out. I'm getting a faint scraping sound from the turbo. Kind of like white noise/turbulence. Is this normal as the vanes are freeing off or is my compressor on its way out and scraping on its inner housing? Seems to do it around 3k rpm.

Ps: I know scraping ain't much to go on. Sounds like a jet flying over creating turbulence or better yet that tcccht noise you hear people do on a walkie talkie.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
It's the 2.0 16v 136. Turbo is buried in the bulkhead at the back. I've heard a bad turbo should sound like a dentists drill but thought maybe they can fail in other ways. VNT's are no fun. When they don't work properly anyway lol

They hid it well no access from abover and a full plate sub frame underneath to block access from below. Debating dealing with sub frame or engine out the top with my brother
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Checked out my repeat sensor on pp. Key in position 2. Reading was 41%. Is it a dud sensor? Or could it be fault wiring? I'm guessing it's not vacuum issue because engine is off. Still hoping it's the vanes but I'm not holding much hope
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
OK guys really need your help with this one. I felt down behind the engine to what I believe was the actuator. It was a thread and moved up and down a bit. I then pulled the vacuum on it and felt it again and it had moved quite a bit and I could feel more of it that was not threaded. I've swapped out a couple solenoids to no avail.

OK here's my question. I've read around that when you pull the map sensor the idle should change but on mine it doesn't. Also disconnecting my maf also makes no difference. I will get a light for the map straight away and won't be able to rev over 4k and have no turbo. The maf gives a mil after 2 ignition cycles but does not change the way the car drives. Is it possible I have a bad map sensor and it's put car into reduced output bypassing the maf?

I have tried an ohms test on the map. It seemed more responsive after some carb cleaner and changed readings when I sucked on it. Other than that I can't tell what it's supposed to say.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Update* when I slowly rev the car up in neutral the turbo doesn't kick in but if I stamp it from idle it will spool up with a quick tap on the pedal. Any ideas guys? I'm waiting on a vac gauge but I tried blocking off an egr vac line to increase the remaining vac and it does nothing.

I got p0238 before which I think could be wiring to the boost solenoid. Still said the same when I unplugged the sensor. But code cleared and didn't come back when I was wiggling the wires. Whatever the cars problem is it seems stamping the throttle is the only way to get turbo from idle.

Ps: I thought vacuum is vented to atmosphere but my car holds vacuum when turned off? Is this normal and what gives you a few brake pumps until it runs out?
 

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Turbo wont boost properly without a load on it so revving in neutral wont tell you much :)

revving slowly making no boost says lack of vacuum to me as i have said already you NEED steady vacuum for the system to work correctly.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
I have a vac gauge on the way. I have noticed that the vac pull on the turbo feed is a lot weaker than on the egr feed. But I tapped into the egr feed and diverted it to the turbo solenoid but it made no difference. Would I need to plug the unhooked turbo feed as well?

I tried moving the actuator arm by hand and it's quite hard just to get it to move up half an inch. Even with pliers. But when I turn the car on and it applies vac to it it moves a he'll of a lot because i can feel a good couple inches of the rod with no thread that was not there when not under vac. What I mean on idle is that if I stamp the throttle it will spool turbo under 2k rpm. But as soon as you ease it in or set off under load it's gone. It feels like my vanes are seized around half boost. So it will only spool when it reaches enough rpm but then fades out as quick as it comes in. When in the turbo If you ease off it takes ages to spool up again and comes in even later
 

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I know my repeat sensor is dying, but it's such an expensive or ballache of a job to do I'm waiting till it goes completely before I replace it. I need to go round and replace all the vac control hoses because most of the connections are split and sealed will electrical tape and cable ties lol but that ain't happening till it warms up a bit. My turbo makes a whooshing (under acceleration) rather than a whining sound so I think there is some variation around. Can't say I've ever noticed a clatter at least not over the normal engine noise under acceleration.

Since you can feel the actuator moving, I don't think your vanes are stuck.

KOEO (key on engine off) should be 11% so if you haven't got 11% then it's not working properly. HOWEVER as I say mine doesn't work properly and I still get boost. I also get intermittent P2562 and/or 2563 but they auto-reset after a few ignition cycles. The car can be hesitant sometimes under medium acceleration and I don't think I get full boost any more, but I do get boost. Under hard acceleration it boosts reliably but as I say no way of knowing if its 100% or not.

Can you watch the repeat/ref sensor under load? It may be that under partial acceleration the ECU is not requesting full boost and because the repeat sensor's and or solenoid is a bit wobbly you don't actually get any boost until the ECU requests more than 75% (for example). I hope that makes sense. In Diagbox (maybe PP too) you can make a pretty graph of repeat and ref sensor position. Some jumping of the repeat sensor is normal but if it's really jittery it's probably had it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
My turbo is boosting because when it boost cuts under load you can tell the turbo is cut. But rather than making boost at say 1200 rpm and max boost at 2200 rpm I get nothing until around 2800-3000 rpm and by then it can just about pull on under WOT and it runs out of puff before making it to the end of the revs. Downhill it will pull better but no better than my old 1.1 106 independence
 

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I hate you. After my nice post yesterday I went to Wales today and about 5 miles in the ECU cut the turbo, and it stayed cut. One of my lovely cable-tied-electrical-tape hose joints has come loose and there's no way I was gonna fix it in -1 degrees. On top of that part of the undertray fell off half way down the M4 so cue lying in the services with cable ties (and the snow) to patch it up! Joys of Pug ownership eh?!

Anyway, I can't say any more than either being the repeat sensor or poor vacuum supply to the solenoid. You need to watch repeat values on PP under load + boost to narrow down further I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Need some help guys. I've dropped the sub frame and split the dpf at the back of the cat but I can't figure out how to remove the cat to gain access? I have removed one of the bolts from the bracket on the left hand end of the cat (13mm, you can see the bottom of it poking through from below) and another 13mm below it behind the drive shaft but I'm not sure I need to remove the bracket.

heat shield behind it is loose but obviously pinned in place. Where are the bolts located to remove the cat and how the heck do you get to the clamp on the back of it for that matter 0.o

I'm so close I can taste that turbo so really appreciate any help thanks.
The Haynes just says remove the bolts, and apparently I need to remove my drive shaft and the intermediate bearing. Which I am not sure if that's the one inside the engine mount or the one going into the diff. Hope I can do this without removing the driveshaft because the sub frame is off and the nut is way too tight.
 

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You need the clamp loose to get the cat off once the 2 mount bolts are off its a pain in the car you think its hard getting it off wait till you try getting it back on !!
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Where is the second mount bolt? I got the one you can see the bottom of but I can't find the second one? I can feel one behind bracket but can't get a spanner anywhere near it. If I get in and split the clamp will it make a bit more sense where the other bolt is holding it? And I don't know how I'm going to get at it through that gap lol.

PS: I can see a torque bit bolt on some kind of bracket, but I'm guessing it's another 13mm nut somewhere?
 

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Im going to be honest here the whole engine and box can be removed in 2 hours and thats how i do anything like this i done a clutch today on a 308 front off engine out complete remove gearbox fit clutch refit box all built back up driving 4 hours with 2 of us on it :)

Any time i done turbo work i removed the engine as getting the cat off and on properly is so much easier on the floor the time it takes to get the subframe off would have the engine out you can then actually see what you are doing :)
 
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