Peugeot Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Bought another 307 yesterday with a non start issue. The previous owner claimed they drove it home and the next day it wouldnt start.
They tried changing the ecu bsi and key fob and that made no difference so sold it to me.

Iv connected my lexia and the only faults its showing is an intake air temperature signal fault.
When cranking the max fuel pressure ive seen is 170bar according to pp. how accurate is this or would it be better to attach a gauge to the pump?

Iv changed the regulator, rail pressure sensor and finally the fuel pump itself from a car i know was driving and starting fine. This made no difference. Iv primed the bulb until hard and again no difference (siemens pump so no lift pump).

I then went into the bsi parameters and noticed that it says the ecm is locked. Does this mean the immobiliser is preventing it from starting? It does this with either complete ecu set fitted.

I took both ecu sets and fitted them to another car of the exact same model that i know has no current faults and starts fine normally and again they wouldnt work on that car.

In bsi parameters for both ecu sets it says
Transponder antiscanning active : no
Key 1 syncronised : no
Key 2 syncronised : no
Ecm locked : yes
Transponder recognised: yes

the transponder marker is recognised, i presume this means chip in the key?
I was concerned that key 1 and 2 are saying they werent syncronised but on my other car which starts and runs perfectly it also says key 1 and 2 arent syncronised?

Ive done lots of googling and some people online suggest that ecm says locked because the car is in economy mode? Mine is.

Anyone had dimilar issues in the past? Its a 2.0hdi 90bhp with siemens pump.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,113 Posts
Are you sure the keys are not mixed up dont believe what your told CHECK

The correct key for BSI should allow remote locking wrong key wont

correct key should beep with key in ignition and door open wrong one wont

Might have lost the key memory in both BSI units

People always blame the ecu set and quite often its a simple wiring or fuse issue :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I have matched the keys to the correct bsi by seeing which key locks and unlocks the car when fitted. Also they beep when doors are opened so im pretty sure i now have the correct keys.
I was also able to see which was the cars original bsi because it matched the vin number. i made sure when fitted that the transponder marker is recognised each time.

if it was a wiring issue or fuse gone in the car then surely they would have worked in the other car which is the same model, spec and year?
Unfortunately there was no service book with the car and no transponder code card otherwise i would have tried inputting that again. I think this may be my next step.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,113 Posts
Yes i recon it may well be lost keycodes people dont always tell you the full stories when you buy non runners :)

I just bought a 206 HDI 1.6 which runs but has no drive i have another which came to us not running but was messed about with cannot get coms with engine ecu wiring a total mess and key is not recognised no idea whats been done so we will make 1 good out the 2 hopefully
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Yes unfortunately ive had lots of experience with people fibbing about problems with the cars they are selling. Bought quite a few where they claimed that they needed a fuel pump or something simple and it turned out that the timing belt had snapped and they just fitted a new belt hoping itd be fine.
However fixing hdis that have broke a belt is easy so i dont mind!

I even took the rocker cover off this one to double check but sadly all looks good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Next update is i inputted the transponder code and its made no difference. Still says ecm locked. Im now wondering if the ecus could be mixed up.
Does anyone know is there any way with peugeot planet to check if the ecu fitted matches the bsi? I have tried connecting the other evu to the original bsi and still wont start but it would still be good to know which of the 2 ecus is the original one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,780 Posts
If you have another car to test on why not try one bsi set but with both ecus and if that still don't work then take the know working set to test the other car
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I have tried both ecu sets in the working car and had no joy. I never tried the 2 ecus on the 1 bsi on the working car though.
However today i did take the ecu bsi and keyfob from the working car and fitted to the other car and as soon as i connected the battery there was a very loud buzzing noise, from around the ecu area. the radiator fans came on by themselves and the sidelights. I didnt leave it connected for too long because i was afraid it might ruin the ecu and bsi for the car that actually does go, thankfully it is fine still.

Both cars are 2004 3door 307 hdi s's non aircon same trim same everything basically, but there must be some sort of difference in the software on the ecus i presume for it to have acted like this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Turned out the ecu from my other car was a different number so im guessing thats why it didnt work right.

Anyway i did more testing yesterday with the 2 ecu sets i got with the car when i bought it.
Both ecus have identical hw and sw numbers. Bsis also have identical part numbers so thats a good start.

First i tested what i believe to be the original correct parts for the car.

Faults found during a Global test:
Instrument panel fault: Remote permanent fault. Oil temperature information. Incorrect value received.
Bsi: no fault found
Engine ecu: Says presence of faults but when i go into see the faults it says no fault found. (Seems strange)

Bsi parameters
Transponder anti scanning active : no
Key 1 synchronised: yes
Ecm locked : yes
Transponder marker recognised: yes
Transponder key number learned : 1
Bsi matched: yes
Bsi in anti scanning mode: no
Blank bsi : no

Engine ecu
Control unit condition: ecu is not locked
Measured fuel pressure cranking 125 bar
Each time i try to start i pump the ball to ensure its hard.
Camshaft/crankshaft syncronisation: no (tested this on my other 307 which goes fine and it also says no until the car has actually started)

My next test was using original bsi with 2nd ecu (i believe this is the original bsi because it has the correct vin entered whilst the other has a completely different one)
Global test showed no faults.

Bsi parameters
Key 1 synchronised:no
Ecm locked: yes
Transponder marker recognised: yes
Bsi matched: yes

Engine parameters
Measured fuel pressure when cranking 65bar
Control unit condition: engine management ecu locked
Problems detected when transmitting the unlock code: bsi response incorrect.

So i think these results backs up that this ecu is definitely not for this bsi?

Next the 2nd bsi with the 2nd ecu
When pp recognises the vin number it is different to the car so again clearly not the cars original parts. I dont have the correct dam code for these parts so i inputted the original cars dam code.
Can anyone provide a dam code for this vin?
Vf33erhyb83383549

Global test:
No faults found.

Control unit condition: ecu not locked
Status of coded engine immobiliser programming ----
Problems detected when transmitting the unlock code: no problem detected
Cam/crank syncro: no
No problems detected
Cranking fuel pressure 55bar

Bsi parameters
Transponder antiscanning active
Key 1 syncro yes
Ecm locked no
Transponder marker yes
Bsi matched yes


2nd bsi with first ecu
Ecm locked
Marker recognised yes
Bsi matched yes


Can anyone tell me what does ecm locked actually mean? Its saying ecm locked in my first test and then saying ecu not locked in engine parameters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,780 Posts
If the ecu is lock then is not seeing a command from the bsi to unlock the immobiliser so could be wrong ecu for that bsi

You have a fault with first set but second set working fine but the fuel pressure is your problem what is the cranking speed

Your fuel pressure is low so check fuel filter and fuel line's and check high pressure sensor and wiring to high pressure sensor
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
thanks for replying trustme.

my fuel filter would probably be the only part i haven't changed so far, would it stop it starting though if there was already lots of fuel in the pipes from when I am pushing the ball?

the high pressure sensor do you mean the pressure sensor on the fuel rail? or the one on the pump itself? either way I have changed both from a car I use for parts that I know started and drove perfectly. wiring I will double check for broken wires, is there something I could do with a multimeter while cranking or is it just a case of looking for broke/bared wiring?

im pretty sure Peugeot planet didn't give me a figure for cranking speed but I will check again. it wont be until the weekend though until I get another chance to look at the car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,780 Posts
there is not enough fuel pressure to start the car so its either a leak, blockage, not reading the correct pressure, pump not giving enough pressure, starter not turning pump fast enough.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Ok looked at this car again today, decided to remove the in tank unit and found a massive lump of sludge on the filter. I cleaned it all out and checked the fuel lines for potential blockages then refitted. New fuel filter was the fitted and i fitted my 2nd ecu set which was giving me no ecm faults in earlier testing. Primed the fuel bulb until it went hard and attempted to start.
Still seeing very low pressure according to pp2000.around 60-70bar. I then checked the wiring to the rail pressure sensor and found no problems. As i said earlier i have already changed pump and regulator and rail sensor from my other working car so i know they are good.
I also checked the injector leak off when cranking incase an injector was dumping fuel back causing a loss in pressure but this was also fine.

During our call trustme you mentioned i should check the engine speed when cranking, it is showing as 0rpm.Im guessing this is measured with the crankshaft sensor? I measured the engine speed on another car i have and pp2000 was showing it cranking at just under 300rpm so something isnt right here.

I replaced the old crankshaft sensor with one from my other car that was working fine so i know its not faulty so i checked the wiring with a multimeter and it is also fine.
So i removed the starter to have a look at the flywheel to see if it could possibly be dirty causing the sensor to not pick up correctly but no it looks fine also.
Really dont understand why the engine speed is showing as 0rpm? Tomorrow i might change the starter from my other car and possibly the entire engine wiring loom.
The wiring loom from inside the car to the ecu looks like it could be a pig to change though so it will be my last resort i think.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,113 Posts
NO crank sensor tells you engine speed it is on the bottom pulley or in top of bellhousing depending on year and if you have no reading engine will not start simple as that you need to check everything relating to crank sensor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
My sensor is on the bell housing, i have checked the wires from the plug on the sensor to the ecu plug with a multi meter and there are no breaks. The sensor itself came off a car that was fully functioning but il try another sensor from another car. I have checked the flywheel for dirt and there was none.
Any other advice on what else i could check relating to the crankshaft sensor?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,113 Posts
There may be no power in the circuit to make the sensor work this comes from the ecu internally but since it wont start with any ecu it may well be an external power or earth issue causing all your problems you need to go through the wiring i recon thoroughly

12 volts goes into the ecu but it drops it to 5 volts for some of the sensors not sure you can test voltage at the sensor wires though you would need a scope to see the signal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Ok thanks, il probably change looms today and check all earths and go from there. Unfortunately i dont have an oscilloscope or know anyone who does.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top