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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, my first post and a somewhat negative one, and I normally don't do negative, but as I was prompted by the Peugeot NON customer service, who "really aren't bothered about me posting anything on the forums" I simply couldn't resist .
My 6 year old Peugeot Pollensa with 2L HDi, had performed faultlessly both in Europe and the UK, having purchased it new from the brilliant Spinney motorhomes in Cheshire.
Towards the end of September I set off for annual trip to Scotland and luckily (only because of the distance), four miles from home a clattering started, which sounded like a noisy tappet, this was followed by a loss of power and then finally a red light at which point, I had already de-clutched and was coasting. The engine had obviously seized and recovery was called.
A return to my local garage and a discussion resulted in the removal of the sump to inspect any potential cause.
The sump was duly drained of oil and kept safe and the sump removed in order to inspect the bearings shells etc.
Upon removal of the sump, the chain that drives the oil pump and two chunks of metal were found in the sump base. Removal of some shells also showed extensive damage as a result of this chain loss. The interesting part was, where the chunks of metal had come from.
I left this with the garage (non Peugeot) and gave them the order to remove the engine and investigate further.
Removal of the crankshaft revealed that the chunks of metal had come from the end bearer of the crank nearest the oil pump pulley and is clearly a casting fault showing the striations in the crankshaft and the perfectly matching chunks found in the bottom of the sump. There are also significant marks on the pulley driving the chain to the oil pump, another indication that the chunks had interfered with the pulley and subsequently have assisted in breaking the chain.
So it was off to Peugeot, because this engine has only covered 28K in the six years I have had it and I felt it was unreasonable for this type of crank failure. Full service history and always the correct oil and always Peugeot parts. This is where the story gets interesting...bear with me please
I contacted the Customer services and my local Peugeot Garage (Llandudno), at which point they requested the whole vehicle to be brought to them, as it was in many parts at the time I suggested that I bring the engine, which I did the same day.
No contact was made from Peugeot at this stage it was pretty much all one way...inwards.
Eventually I received a call to say that their preliminary investigation had revealed that I had run the engine dry. I asked them not to insult my intelligence at this stage and reminded them that I am an engineer by trade. I have a significant amount of photos of this and it is clear that the cylinders, the cams and the half of the bearings sat in oil in the sump are all still fine, so I asked how they came to this conclusion. I was told that the crank was taken to a local garage, where the owner is an "expert" in crankshafts and has been all his life. I asked why a company the size of Peugeot are referring to a unknown, local garage to make their decisions for them and also asked who was it that examined the crank. The response was that the "expert" was not in at the time so the crank was shown to the son who decided I had run the engine out of oil!!! So Peugeot were basing my problem on the son of a person owning a local garage (chop shop??).
Eventually the "expert" called into the garage, took a look at the crank and said "its a crank fault". The garage then rang me back to confirm this, thankyou Peugeot a liability admission Some headway??
The episode has reached a crescendo today after several more non replies, a couple of weeks, some waffling and some very illogical reasoning from their technical department..."ah well you didnt always have it serviced at Peugeot, we dont know how hot the oil was at the time of the incident, We dont know how much oil was in it at the time of the incident, therefore we dont accept any liability" Now there's a surprise.
But the goodwill of customer services have come with the offer of a replacement engine (Refurbished, not new) for a mere £3500!! and whats more they would give me a brand new one for £4500. In both cases only 12 months warranty. But in their kindness are offering to pay 50%. I know damn well that covers completely the engine and all their time to fit it and I can purchase one with three years warranty for much less than that.
So you can see my eagerness to buy another Peugeot motorhome after this incident I'm sure. NEVER NEVER AGAIN, because the beautiful facades of the Peugeot garages and the Customer support systems are in fact facades and within those garages are empty voids of support and care.
Its already logged with Trading standards
Any suggestions of a reputable place to purchase a replacement engine??

Mike
 

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van

hi,i have to agree that 6years down the line and what appears to be no loyalty to the brand(local garage servicing) i don't feel you have been to hard done by.
yes you have a fault,the point is at what point it could/should have been pre-empted.
they have offered you something,its you that are not taking them up on the offer and are looking elsewhere for an engine,also you don't mention any contact with "the brilliant spinney motorhomes",was it bought brand new from them?
toddy
 
G

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Interesting.

Was it serviced at an actual franchised Peugeot dealer? - you say it was serviced with 'genuine parts', and the phrasing indicates this may not have been the case. If so, why do you thing Peugeot should show any goodwill to you when you've not shown any to them?

Additionally, low mileage is not always indicative that a component is less likely to fail. Indeed, certain components, especially those subject to pressurised lubrication such as engine internals, as well as brakes, etc, have a longer life when used very often. This is doubly so if the low mileage vehicle is kept out doors.

I see your point to some extent, and I doubtless wouldn't be teribly chuffed myself. Nevertheless, it is unreasonable to epect every component on a vehicle to last indefinitaly, and I can quite understand Pug giving a resounding 'sod off' to a vehicle at double the warranty period whether it had 1 mile or 100,000 - they have to say no at some point, and the fact (if I'm reading the wording correctly) that it was maintained outside of the dealer network makes their decision more justifiable.

Take it to court if you want more - you will lose. A tenner to the childrens charity of your choice if the opposite happens. The offer you've been made is very generous and shows a surprising amount of goodwill on their part, where you have seemingly shown them none, and I'd be inclined to take it and learn the lesson next time. Not bad.

In short, you've serviced it on the cheap (doubtless the garage you use was very good, that's not the issue) and in doing so kept it out the dealer network, showed them no goodwill or business, and then 6 years later expect them to rescue you. You got blooming lucky and I think you should, respectfully, button it and stop bad mouthing. you had a very weak moral case, and a non-existant legal one, and still got a half decent result, so the bad mouthing is unjustified.

Oh, BTW - as someone with a Masters degree in Celestial Mechanics and Engineering (making spacecraft and flying them, to you) I'd be very keen to know, as a bit of a materials and applications expert in the field myself, how your crank man deduced a faulty crank by just glancing at it? Answers on a Mass Spectrometer to:

He can't,
It's rubbish,
He'd need a spectrographic,
Or microscopic materials analyisis,
To determine this.
RU88 1SH.

ever heard of Occams Razor? When faced with 2 or more equally plausible hypotheses to explain a problem, the simplest is the correct one. Well, a low mileage vehicle, with a less than average opportunity to get the engine thoroughly hot for long periods of time, which doubtless lives outside in the moisture and humidity because of it's size, suffered a failure of the case hardening on the crank due to an accumulation of condensation. Your first picture is indicative of exactly that. You're not the first, you won't be the last, you got quite a bit of assistance when it's not even their fault at all, get over it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
chopper1192 said:
Interesting.

Was it serviced at an actual franchised Peugeot dealer? - you say it was serviced with 'genuine parts', and the phrasing indicates this may not have been the case. If so, why do you thing Peugeot should show any goodwill to you when you've not shown any to them?

Additionally, low mileage is not always indicative that a component is less likely to fail. Indeed, certain components, especially those subject to pressurised lubrication such as engine internals, as well as brakes, etc, have a longer life when used very often. This is doubly so if the low mileage vehicle is kept out doors.

I see your point to some extent, and I doubtless wouldn't be teribly chuffed myself. Nevertheless, it is unreasonable to epect every component on a vehicle to last indefinitaly, and I can quite understand Pug giving a resounding 'sod off' to a vehicle at double the warranty period whether it had 1 mile or 100,000 - they have to say no at some point, and the fact (if I'm reading the wording correctly) that it was maintained outside of the dealer network makes their decision more justifiable.

Take it to court if you want more - you will lose. A tenner to the childrens charity of your choice if the opposite happens. The offer you've been made is very generous and shows a surprising amount of goodwill on their part, where you have seemingly shown them none, and I'd be inclined to take it and learn the lesson next time. Not bad.

In short, you've serviced it on the cheap (doubtless the garage you use was very good, that's not the issue) and in doing so kept it out the dealer network, showed them no goodwill or business, and then 6 years later expect them to rescue you. You got blooming lucky and I think you should, respectfully, button it and stop bad mouthing. you had a very weak moral case, and a non-existant legal one, and still got a half decent result, so the bad mouthing is unjustified.

Oh, BTW - as someone with a Masters degree in Celestial Mechanics and Engineering (making spacecraft and flying them, to you) I'd be very keen to know, as a bit of a materials and applications expert in the field myself, how your crank man deduced a faulty crank by just glancing at it? Answers on a Mass Spectrometer to:

He can't,
It's rubbish,
He'd need a spectrographic,
Or microscopic materials analyisis,
To determine this.
RU88 1SH.

ever heard of Occams Razor? When faced with 2 or more equally plausible hypotheses to explain a problem, the simplest is the correct one. Well, a low mileage vehicle, with a less than average opportunity to get the engine thoroughly hot for long periods of time, which doubtless lives outside in the moisture and humidity because of it's size, suffered a failure of the case hardening on the crank due to an accumulation of condensation. Your first picture is indicative of exactly that. You're not the first, you won't be the last, you got quite a bit of assistance when it's not even their fault at all, get over it.

Chopper,
Initial services were done at the dealers, but the last one (only) was not.
It wasnt "my man" that diagnosed the crank fault it was a third party garage on behalf of Peugeot, not even a Peugeot garage, so I guess its OK for Peugeot to make "informed" decisions from local garages but my fault if I choose to go the local garage for one service rather than the dealer some 30 miles away?
As for component failure I agree, but 28K on a crankshaft is not in my list of reasonables.
As it happens, further discussions with Peugeot have resolved the problem and we have come to an amicable agreement to replace the engine.

Thanks for your post
 
G

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I'm not quite sure why you're hung up on the mielage? as aformentioned, low mileage can actually be detrimental to the wellbeing of many components, including internally lubricated engine componets...which, funnily enough, a crankshaft is. Especially so if the vehicle is left outside.

Case hardening failure as a result of condensation on a low miler isn't an every day thing, but isn't so uncommon I've not encountered it before (the last example being on a Yaris clutch release bearing on a 3 year old car with 4k miles). This is still the most likely plausible.

And how long is a reasonable period for a manufacturer to care? It's already lived to double the warranty period - 10 years? 15? Or 6, just because that happens to be how old your vehicle is?
 
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