[alexopth1512]

Hello all

I have a friend with a local shop that I some times help with diagnostics (but not programming/coding).
A client brought a 207 CC bought new 2008 1.6 120 hp.
He had a problem with the cooling fan, that the high speed fan is activated early, works for 10 minutes or so when the car is idle and then deactivated. After some short time cycle runs again even when car is idling and weather is not hot. Also there is vibration during the activation of high speed fan and shop people say that during this period engine doesn't show to work very well
Before he goes to the shop he went to local dealership where he was advised to change all engine and ECU....

So we started our try, we have Diagbox 5.16 for diagnosis.
- We noticed that the 1st fan is activated at 89C and high speed fan at 94C (Should we expect 100C+) ?
- When the temp drops at 90C after some minutes it stops the high speed (but the cycle goes for ever)
- Checking the ECU during the activation of high speed fan it was showing on parameters that was giving command for Speed "1" (is this the low?)
- We think that temperatures from sensors seem reasonable as they read on DiagBox
- We changed the thermostat (with embedded sensor) and we have same behavior
- diag errors: BSI complains about oil sensor. After many diagnosis tries we had once P0694, which never happened again.
- We can activate with DiagBox thru ECU the fans and work as they should. We tried all activations and everything works properly.
- There is that "relay" on the fans with a circuit board (which is made by Omron p# 98372a) but we are not very sure if this is the problem
- All the checks from DiagBox for registors and various components showed they are OK (and the fans)

Any ideas are welcome...

Theodore

 

[stripe88]

sorry cant be much help but daughters car used to run badly from time to time with the depollution fault, and ever so often would run even worse and fire up the high speed fan. think it was the bad running that put the car into a limp home mode.

so how does it drive when the fan comes on? any depolution fault showing?

 

[alexopth1512]

What is the depolution fault? I have read about "DPF" I thought it was for diesels, ours is gasoline, it has the same system?

When the high speed runs car runs terribly, oil pours on spark plugs.

I remember on multi display an error about pollution or something for a second but went away.

Can you elaborate more on this DPF problem?

 

[stripe88]

depollution comes on for all sorts of reasons, in short, if the engines not running right it will get picked up by the lambdas etc and tell the ecu to go into safe(limp home) settings.This can trigger the fan to come on.

can be something simple like a plug or coilpack, in our case i had to swap the cam chain and exhaust vanos solenoid, but i was getting codes for cam position.

are you sure its oil and not fuel on the plugs,is it on the thread and tip of the plug?bad cam gasket will oil the thread as its removed. could be a bad coilpack have seen bad ones throw no code until they have totally given up.scan codes again.

 

[alexopth1512]

We changed ECUs and did the same problem

We have the error for Depollution fault on screen.

The fan starts at 91 C exactly and then piston #2 shows from peugeot planet that timing is 0 fuel spray in ms (like no fuel is sprayed?)

We erased all errors and nothing shows now on full scan, will try again

Yesterday we emptied the fuel tank and noticed that the color was black (!)
We think that somebody tried to damage the car, we are not sure what was added to the gasoline. Maybe this was the root cause of all problems.

We will continue tests

 

[stripe88]

yes could be someones repaired the tank with a sealent and this had got into a injector, in other cars i have manualy cleaned injectors with a syringe/ pipe and voltage to the injector, but would probably be best to swap out the suspect injector.

test for voltage at the injector first though.

 

[alexopth1512]

We cleaned tank and everything we could. We cleaned injecttors.

1st test was negative.

Reopened engine cleaned everything we could.

Erased all errors with PP2000

On 2nd test a loud noise happened that scared us

After that noise, everything runs fine :lol:

We kept it running for ttonight and we are going to check tomorrow too

 

[Turbo207]

Could it be the timing chain tensioner?

 

[stripe88]

yes wondering what the noise sounded like and from where on the engine? if it was from the cam chain area i would be taking the cam cover off and having a good check, although it will soon start throwing codes if a problem that end.

 

[alexopth1512]

Update..
Conclusion is that car could be haunted Smile

Anyway

We saw the gazoline was almost black and cleaned tank. It seems not the root cause but was not a good sign.

What actually happens is:
When car goes to 91C we have
- Engine vibrations (not fan)
- high speed on fan
- Depollution fault on Display
- Random disorder on injectors (DiagBox shows that one injector but not always on the same cylinder... )
- oil on spark plug on the cylinder that has the problem

With DiagBox all activators of ECU work fine, coils, injectors, fan etc

So far we have changed:
- thermostat
- the omron relay on fan
- swaped ECUs for test with an unlocked one, changed it back
- swaped injectors
- changed gaskets, changed timing kit (chain, tensioner), spark plugs and did a necessary rebuild of the engine...
- opened gas pump will check tomorrow

Also the noise sounded like unburnt gasoline or something

 

[Turbo207]

I would put my money on the chain tensioner.

Engine vibration and depollution fault both point to the chain tensioner.

 

[alexopth1512]

We change short block...

Is there any guide for the timing? We find misleading info from autodata and other sources....

The car is 207 vti 1.6 120 hp 2007

And we had change all timing kit

 

[Turbo207]

We change short block...

Is there any guide for the timing? We find misleading info from autodata and other sources....

The car is 207 vti 1.6 120 hp 2007

And we had change all timing kit

You changed the whole head?
Replaced the whole timing kit? chain, tensioner, etc.? Did you put a brand new original in? It has to be the part number that was issued after the recall.
That sounds unbelievable, you changed everything? Maybe its time to change the car?
Maybe its a faulty temp sensor or something? I bet you changed that already...

 

[stripe88]

wow hats off for that, valve timing is easy enough just lock the crank with the pin and check the flats of the camshafts (and the cam labels) are facing up.

the exhaust cam was out on daughters as you can see...

can be a bit awkward tightening the cam sprockets as they are vanos type and can rotate a bit, i shaped a peice of soft wood (pine) into a triangle shape and wedged it between the sprockets to hold everything steady.

 

[alexopth1512]

After many tries car is delivered to customer...
We continued open the engine and clean stuff till these two last days is stabilized. Still check engine lights on but since we were at 34 service check we didn't want to reset the check engine light. At delaership they told us the DiagBox can't unlock the ECU after 35 times... needs special treatment. true or not we informed customer...
We spent a lot of time checking timing again and again, we went to dealership to confirm method etc etc...

Anyway car is delivered today, hope doesn't come back

 

[reliable406]

The service counters just stop at 40 or whatever it just means the ecu will store no more service data this info is only any good to Peugeot anyway you can clear faults 1000 times if you want to

 

[alexopth1512]

Ah, this is nice to know... thanx