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Discussion Starter #1
My 2008 207 120hp petrol runs well but when I put water into the header it just runs straight to sump and the level on the dipstick just goes up with the water put into the coolant header. I dont think this can be head gasket as its very quick and the engine runs so well.
The local garage says head gasket or liners but this leak is just so quick I have doubts.
Trouble is I spent just over £1000 not long back on brake callipers, discs, etc so reluctant to scrap the car.
Any ideas would be greatly received.
 

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I would get the oil cooler checked these are a known weak spot as are the gaskets on most Peugeots and can allow mixing of coolant and oil
 

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If water and oil are mixing, are you able to see a mayo 'cream' in the coolant header or dipstick?

Have just done a diy head gasket job on mine for under £200, but you need the time. Generally the 1.4L pugs get the relatively livable with oil in the driver corner fault after about 40,000 miles, because of a specific o-ring failing in the fibre gasket.

However, oil and water mixing would take far longer for the fibre gasket to break down imo. Whats the mileage?

Have you checked you dont have a leak by placing paper down?




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Discussion Starter #4
Many thanks for your replies.
There is no trace of water under the engine and I have to question the head gasket which is, of course, one of the first possibilities but:
the water leak is so quick. I can poor water into the expansion tank and it just goes straight into the sump. there is no oil in the water system at all
I have been looking at past listings and come across a core plug in the timing gear area leaking. has this been a problem.
This water to oil leak is very fast, almost as though I'm just pooring into the oil filler
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I also never realised there was an oil cooler on this model so another avenue to check.
I will try to get some info from Peugeot tomorrow
 

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Mileage is 84,000 but the car has been serviced before the due time since new and has had only good quality oils, antifreeze, etc
 

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Thats.a.low milage engine. What I'm thinking now is that you have a water leak under pressure when the engine is running hot and the thermostat valve opens.

The reason I'm thinking that is that you say there is no oil and water mixing which would certainly happen with head gasket failure or lining failure. You should at least see mayo in the header as it circulates imo.

You state the dipstick level rises when you add coolant which means coolant mixing, but when the engine drives and gets hot this should operate as a closed system under pressure, and you should be able to see signs of mixing by opening the header and having a look. Unless its not a closed system, which rules out the head gasket and maybe lining seals.

after a run of the engine do you get a low water level in the header tank? Or do you have to keep topping up without a run?

There are 3 parts to the cooling system which runs under pressure when hot, the engine block, the radiator, and the heater matrix. the thermostat only opens a valve to the radator when the coolant gets over 90C, there is also a heater matrix behind the firewall i.e. inside the car which heats the cabin. So a leak in the pipes which only occurs under pressure when the thermostat valve is open is possible.

One very easy way to figure out whats going on would be to jack the front of the car up on jack stands and simply drain the oil from the sump into a container and have a look at it. You can pour the oil back later.

You can also drain the coolant from the bottom radiator hose into a clean container in the same way. Although you would have to bleed the system when putting it back.

You also state a leak from the timing gear. I assume you mean the cambelt. I.e. the waterpump. This is possible to be a coolant pressure leak area.

One thing for sure the missing coolant must go somewhere. I would run the engine to temp with newspaper under to spot any leaks before draining the oil.

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I also never realised there was an oil cooler on this model so another avenue to check.
I will try to get some info from Peugeot tomorrow
There is no oil cooler on the 120bhp engine - only on the more powerful turbo version.

From the way you describe it you are saying that you pour coolant into the header tank and it flows straight into the sump. This implies to me that you cannot even top up the header tank to the "MIN" level (i.e. if all the coolant you're adding really goes straight into the sump then you could never "fill" the header tank!)

So when you put coolant into the header tank are you just watching it drain away and seeing the oil dipstick level rise immediately?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks for all the input folks - a pleasant surprise to find all the folks willing to help me.
Equinox is dead right. i cannot fill the header as the water just runs straight to the sump and oil level rises so running it for any time is out of the question.
So, how is the oil getting into the sump is the question and I can only think that I have suffered some catastophic failure in either the head or a liner. Peugeot say that if the thermostat housing failed, then no overheat message would get to the dash and so I could 'cook' the engine without any warning at all. However, if I just start the engine for a short time it runs sweet as normal so I have to admit to being flumoxed
However just before junking it, i'm going to take the head off and 'have a look'. I will most certainly post what I find.
 

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Although there may not be an oil cooler the housing may well have a coolant passage leading to it and i would check there first its highly unlikely to be a head gasket issue from your description something large is leaking the water into the sump head gasket leaks are normally small and if the oil has not turned to mayo then its not had a chance to get hot to mix the oil and water so it is a recent issue.
 

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My mistake i could have sworn my daughters 207cc had an oil cooler.

If you have no other major issue with the engine and it was a sudden with no other symptoms i would be looking for a core plug (Some people say take oil filler cap off and get someone to blow into coolant header tank you will hear the hiss from the filler cap if its failed)

 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Windy1603. Are you saying that there are core plugs in the head which if failed would cause water to run to sump That would make a lot of sense to my problem.
There is some sign of mayo under the filler cap but not much but there seems to be no oil in the water system.
Peugeot tell me that there is no way water can get into the oil bar head or liner failure.
 

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Astounded that this can occur. A giant plug hole in the block? Then i check and sure enough... yes can get corroded by old coolant and pops out.

https://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/307-38/core-plug-sizes-240009/
Nov 07, 2016***· #1

Core plug sizes?

Hi all, new here,
I've just bought a 2003, 307 Rapier, 1.6 petrol with a suspected head gasket fault.It was leaking the contents of the coolant tank within 10 mins whilst engine running but has no oil in coolant or vice versa.
I managed to get stuck into it today and discovered it's not the head gasket but the core plugs that are corroded and leaking badly.

....

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Rotted core plugs are not that common nowadays its using plain water as coolant that makes them rot not old coolant.

The SO CALLED BMW engine on the other hand the core plugs dont rot they come loose and fall out ! so you get head gasket symptoms without head gasket issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
S U C C E S S, I've found the fault despite being told by 2 garages and our local Peugeot dealer that either my head gascet
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Sorry that post went quicker than it should have - I'm new to this.

Despite being told by 2 garages and our local Peugeot garage that my car has suffered a catastrophic failure to either the head/gaskit or even liners which would require repairs in the region of £1500 or one even suggested I don't bother and trace a good used engine and scrap this one. I took the top covers of myself and yes, staring me in the face was a big hole in the head just under the timing gear where a core plug should be. I fished the plug out and there was no corrosion at all, it had just 'come out'.
Next problem is how to replace it without those special toll that I think will be required if the head has to come of, which I think it will.
Anyway fault found and I have to give credit to this forum for pointing me in the direction which ultimately 'found the fault'
Many thanks to you all!!!!

I have tried to attach a photo but not sure if it will work but the screwdriver points to the 'hole' and the core plug is on the side.

 

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Have to say it's been a very illuminating thread. I always thought the BMW Prince engine was so much better... You must be well chuffed!

I wonder if you could use quiksteel (epoxy) to 'weld' the plug back forever? Many have used it to repair cracks in engine blocks.

Quiksteel N16002A https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B005O0366Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_h2NIDb7PGFCPC

But there are plenty of sillicon engine core plug sealers (from a ebay search)

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/352151085090



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On the mini and BMW forums they all say the original engine is a pile of the preverbial

One comment was if you tied a chain around it and tried to use it as a sea anchor for your boat it would probably fail

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