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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

When the garage connecting the "official" manufacturer software to the OBD port in the car - What is the most detailed file that can be retrieved, containing all the raw data information?

Thanks,
 

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There are logs in the ecu and BSI of previous repairs etc if thats what you mean but these are not always filled in by the dealers so the answer is not a lot in reality

The computer reads everything in real time it does not save much if anything
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I read somewhere it's possible to dump ODX file? This is the exchange format of OBD protocol.
So here is the thing: You go to a garage, they plug in the PC, solely on the PC output they say "this is the fault" and fix it.
Then after few days you see the problem still exist, and you want to figure out based on what data they decided what they decided?
Because now days when you have PC's nobody actually looks inside your car to figure out what's wrong - all diagnose done by PC.
(because you already paid on repair done by wrong diagnose, and probably now will pay second time for the correct repair).
 

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No thats not how it works the computer is just used to read codes and look at live data the proper dealer system can connect to peugeots servers but this is for troubleshooting problem cars and for updating software in ECUs there is no data stored in the car that the computer downloads and saves.

Probably can be done with some manufacturers as you describe but not our cars
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think this is a big big issue: In 2017 the days of promoting another 5 HP in the engine are obsolete. No one cares. What we do care, is being (really) smart. I think that in the connected IoT world we all should select cars by parameters like this.
 

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I read somewhere it's possible to dump ODX file? This is the exchange format of OBD protocol.
So here is the thing: You go to a garage, they plug in the PC, solely on the PC output they say "this is the fault" and fix it.
Then after few days you see the problem still exist, and you want to figure out based on what data they decided what they decided?
Because now days when you have PC's nobody actually looks inside your car to figure out what's wrong - all diagnose done by PC.
(because you already paid on repair done by wrong diagnose, and probably now will pay second time for the correct repair).
Yes but no. What you pay for is a guy (or girl) who understands that a missing signal from your rear abs sensor is probably due to rust instead of a faulty sensor. Or one who can tell you that your glow plug relay fault is probably a faulty glow plug that will prevent regen and give other problems down the line.

A computer will see faults and can be programmed to present probable options, or your car can come with a sensor for every single point or potential fault, but even then a faulty sensor (remember, this is pretty cheap tech) can give a false reading.

Diagnostics are fine as a pointer and can give a pretty good idea of faults present, however you will still benefit massively from a trained/experienced mechanic.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes but no. What you pay for is a guy (or girl) who understands that a missing signal from your rear abs sensor is probably due to rust instead of a faulty sensor. Or one who can tell you that your glow plug relay fault is probably a faulty glow plug that will prevent regen and give other problems down the line.

A computer will see faults and can be programmed to present probable options, or your car can come with a sensor for every single point or potential fault, but even then a faulty sensor (remember, this is pretty cheap tech) can give a false reading.

Diagnostics are fine as a pointer and can give a pretty good idea of faults present, however you will still benefit massively from a trained/experienced mechanic.
But you are assuming rare case of real investigation (please let's call it in 2017 where SW is everywhere debug). This is not how it actually works - nobody have time for this today. The car came into the garage - Plug PC - in 5 minutes you "know" the problem. That's it.
 

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The car came into the garage - Plug PC - in 5 minutes you "know" the problem. That's it.
If you believe that is the state of things these days then please let me have some of whatever it is you are taking.

The computer only reads that information from the ECU's and can point to potential causes for a problem - nothing more. It then takes someone with experience and a working brain to then properly diagnose the real cause and replace it.

The problem lies with people who do think as the above quoted statement and change parts like glow plugs or the glow plug relay simply because the error message mentions them without actually doing any real diagnosing.
 

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Then why is it that you hear people report " they took it to the main dealers, the computer said it was "so and so" so they replaced it with another and it did not fix it but I had to pay for it anyway." Because it is the easiest option for the dealers. You cannot tell me that every message generated is noted but a full and thorough investigation is carried out, especially now that the car is all electronics on all systems and most garages have to buy in the electrician expert as and when!
 

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Then why is it that you hear people report " they took it to the main dealers, the computer said it was "so and so" so they replaced it with another and it did not fix it but I had to pay for it anyway." Because it is the easiest option for the dealers. You cannot tell me that every message generated is noted but a full and thorough investigation is carried out, especially now that the car is all electronics on all systems and most garages have to buy in the electrician expert as and when!
Who is this response meant for ?

If it's meant for me then you obviously didn't read my response correctly.

It's because many dealers DON'T investigate the fault after diagnosing the car that there are so many posts saying the computer said this was at fault and replacing parts at the customers expense did not resolve the issue. This is why I qualified my statement with 'it then needs someone with experience and a working brain'.

If you don't understand this then I hope you have a very deep wallet or a rich relative who has remembered you fondly.

You've been a member here long enough to know the general feeling about dealers abilities to correctly diagnose a fault first time round and the reasons for them failing to repair it at the firs attempt. Maybe you are one of those who mistakenly believe the computer is capable of pinpointing with perfect accuracy every single fault - even if it has no connection to any sensor or ECU.
 

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I dont think he was replying to you storeman :)

The OP actually believes the computer can find everything and log everything the computer is a tool thats all it is how good the tool works depends on the operators ability to understand what the tool is telling you.

Some operators are very bad :)
 

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It was meant to highlight the fact that even with the modern electronics and recording systems these modern day cars have and the fact that the normal average car driver is just that, the car driver who does not know how they work and is convinced by the hype that they are all self reporting that the real engineers are no longer required. The people who work on the machines, I was an aircraft licensed engineer, know that the computer systems are limited and restricted to what they tell us. I worked on the very early A320 from 1988 onwards and when we first got the aircraft the manuals were so incomplete that we had to work out how certain systems worked went they went wrong and then diagnose and fix them. We then told Airbus who then eventually produced the necessary updates to the technical manuals! I was not trying or meaning to get at anybody. It was meant to highlight that proper engineers would not change something to see if it fixes it unless all other options have been investigated. I am trying to do that now on my errand 307!
The A320 was the first civil fly by wire aircraft in service with no manual reversion by the way.
 

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It was probably unfortunate that madbadandold's post was the very next one after mine. It did strike me as kind of an odd reply from him.

Apologies to madbad if I offended :)

Bit of a bad day and easily wound up at the time of posting.
 

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No worries storeman. I think perhaps the OP is a windup kid but a lot of people do think that and quite possibly the industry on the whole, and especially the dealers don't help themselves But of course greed is a terrible thing. But there are some good firms out there. The diesel specialists I dropped the 307 off to could not find any hard fault that would cause the limp mode problem but recorded the fault codes for me. Their machine could not print live data which was a pity but he assured me the turbo gate valve was working OK and all fuel pressures were good. That is all I really expected them to do and at least it means that the engine side of it is sound. Anyway I went to pick the car up and he said no charge as they had not fixed it! I thanked him but insisted I pay for the time spent using the reader and taking it out for a test. So I left with the knowledge that he knew I was honest and I have the knowledge that they are reliable and honest so all is good.
 
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