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Discussion Starter #1
DW10ATED RHS 2.0 307

I had a new clutch fitted last week, and I've been having a problem with it since. It's been a ball-ache of an episode, I'll briefly explain;

- Bought a clutch kit from ECP, told mechanic I bought correct kit for my car and DMF

- Mechanic took everything apart, only to find flywheel had been replaced with the SMF conversion kit

- Found clutch kit for SMF conv. flywheel

- Put everything back together.

Now, as I took the car away, when the car is stationary, the engine/gearbox judders significantly as the clutch bites, and it's much worse when facing up hill (or downhill when in reverse).

Took the car back to the garage, and he said that it could be the driveshaft.

I needed the car for work, so I took it home and had a mate look under the bonnet whilst the clutch was at biting point. He was saying that the engine was jumping back and forwards when the clutch was biting.

Took back to the garage the next day and asked the mech to have a look, and to check the mountings. He said it was fine, but the O/S driveshaft was on it's way out, and that he thinks the juddering could be the flywheel. I was told to persevere and allow the new clutch to bed in with the flywheel.

Before the clutch was replaced, there wasn't any juddering or violent shaking. The SMF was running true with the old clutch, as there are no signs of uneven wear on the old clutch plate. The only issue was the friction material was glazed slightly.

The juddering and shaking has settled slightly since I first took the car back, but it's still there.

I'm not convinced that a driveshaft is causing the shaking, which was the mechanics first diagnosis. I could only think that if it was, the splines would be jumping out of the grooves in the clutch plate, but that surely wouldn't cause the engine to rock?

If the flywheel is warped, then would this show on the old clutch? And should it not have been spotted when the clutch was taken off (I work on Boeing aircraft and rule of thumb is to inspect mating parts when removing components)?

It's bothering me now, and I need to get it fixed. When starting off from stationary and facing up hill, the clutch struggles to engage as it feels like it's bouncing off the flywheel, and I need to give it close to 2,500 revs when facing uphill to get going.

Any ideas?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Because I didn't know the car had previously been converted from DMF to SMF, I left the mechanic to source a kit for the flywheel, he said he used a Valeo kit, based on what he took off.

I agree that the symptoms feel like the bearing or pressure plates, but because I'm asking myself loads of different questions, I'm tying myself up in knots. I've still got the old bearing, and that looks OK to me, so I wonder if the input shaft is making a meal of the new bearing.

I'll have a look through your thread now Monty, cheers mate :thumb:
 

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it will be fine when going along. i fitted a valeo to mine and it came with the old spec bearing. its worked perfectally. only thing is he brought the wrong clutch possibly
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I keep thinking if it is the right clutch, but he's claiming he did a like-for-like swap. I've got the old clutch, so I can always compare if it doesn't clear up once it's all bedded in.

Having read through your thread, the general consensus is the release bearings are questionable - although yours was a LuK...

I'll give it a bit longer and see what happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
This is the old bearing after a good old clean, I notice a bit of wear where the fork sat, but it still runs freely and clean. I also notice it's identical to the standard bearing in your thread - I wonder if the new bearing differs from this and is causing the issues?
 

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If there is a judder when the clutch starts to bite and takes up drive its the clutch plate or pressure plate at fault.Why? could be a number of things,faulty manufacture of the pressure plate diaphragm spring?,bent clutch plate? wrong size clutch? it needs removing for inspection.
Its nothing to do with the release bearing,all that does is operate the clutch.
A faulty drive shaft would only vibrate under load,when the car is being driven in gear under power.
Trouble is jimmy all this is non standard,a recognised conversion yes.I cant help feeling though what should have been done is to have fitted a DMF and clutch listed for that model so getting the car back to its original Peugeot specification.
 

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I disagree I'm still using the same clutch that I had awful judder with do you know the setup of the release bearing on a pug if you read my post above you will see the gap differences
 

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Because I didn't know the car had previously been converted from DMF to SMF, I left the mechanic to source a kit for the flywheel, he said he used a Valeo kit, based on what he took off.

I agree that the symptoms feel like the bearing or pressure plates, but because I'm asking myself loads of different questions, I'm tying myself up in knots. I've still got the old bearing, and that looks OK to me, so I wonder if the input shaft is making a meal of the new bearing.

I'll have a look through your thread now Monty, cheers mate :thumb:

Are you sure he sourced a valeo kit? only asking as I have mine to do after getting stuffed like a thanks-giving turkey by Mister bloody Auto. I have sourced a Valeo kit, its the KIT4P it even comes with a sticker to apply in engine bay to inform you a that a conversion kit fitted.

I believe you must replace like for like with these conversion kits (so I read) they don't like you swapping parts around so having said that it might be worth insisting on the proof of purchase?

I also read that a crankshaft seal can cause judder if its getting oil onto the clutch?

I'm not sure what I can help with as Im out of my depth here as I'm yet to do my own so might have to be paying for Monty's time when I drag him over to do mine :thumb:

good luck :)
 

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Will give a small explanation from my own experience...

I converted to the Valeo kit on that engine.. the 4p kit mentioned.

I got the exact same issue as you with ultra smooth running and gearing but juddering on my slow release on the clutch....(from standstill)

I mounted the kit myself so i know everything was as should be with clearence and so on. (Changed the flywheel gasket to make sure not having to do that down the road.)

So the only difference that i myself had to do was to just add a little gas say 100rpms plus than what i use to do and that solved it all for me...
Thought it would wear over time but no, it was a matter of adapting to the smf flywheel conversion.

After around 50 000 km driving on the kit i sold the car and bought myself
a dmf 137bhp 307 and im never changing to a smf again although right then and there it was a nice cheap option to keep the car running another year commuting.

I myself have wodered if maybe a had a bad gearbox bearing making it highlighted by the smf flywheel but just didn´t see enough worth taking it all down againg just to check.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Are you sure he sourced a valeo kit? only asking as I have mine to do after getting stuffed like a thanks-giving turkey by Mister bloody Auto. I have sourced a Valeo kit, its the KIT4P it even comes with a sticker to apply in engine bay to inform you a that a conversion kit fitted.

I believe you must replace like for like with these conversion kits (so I read) they don't like you swapping parts around so having said that it might be worth insisting on the proof of purchase?

I also read that a crankshaft seal can cause judder if its getting oil onto the clutch?

I'm not sure what I can help with as Im out of my depth here as I'm yet to do my own so might have to be paying for Monty's time when I drag him over to do mine :thumb:

good luck :)
Cheers Moose, I've had a good read through Monty's thread and the general consensus is that the bearings, for whatever reason, aren't happy. Whether that's due to the release arm, the difference in clearance in the bearings or something else, it definitely feels like the clutch bounces and rattles upon contact.

When it came round to fitting the clutch, I bought a kit for a DMF, not knowing that it had previously been converted. So, as a result, the mechanic had to try get hold of a kit based on the friction plate he'd taken out. So I can only assume he bought like-for-like.

If I can't find a solution with the mechanic, I'm tempted to get hold of a used DMF and get one back in. They're designed for a reason, despite their flaws.

The most frustrating part is that before the car went in the garage, the clutch wasn't that bad. Just the occasional slip. It didn't need replacing as a matter of urgency, I thought I'd be a clever dick and replace it because I didn't know how long it'd been in the car - I assumed it was the OEM DMF.....
 

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If I can't find a solution with the mechanic, I'm tempted to get hold of a used DMF and get one back in. They're designed for a reason, despite their flaws.
..[/QUOTE]

I agree jimmy,the pros and cons of DMF V solid kits is a never ending argument and has been done to death.
All I say is if the car came with a DMF keep it.
And another thing jimmy, fitting a used DMF?? you could re-start the whole saga again. If you decide to go back to O/E DMF and clutch it has to be new parts.
 

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Cheers Moose, I've had a good read through Monty's thread and the general consensus is that the bearings, for whatever reason, aren't happy. Whether that's due to the release arm, the difference in clearance in the bearings or something else, it definitely feels like the clutch bounces and rattles upon contact.

When it came round to fitting the clutch, I bought a kit for a DMF, not knowing that it had previously been converted. So, as a result, the mechanic had to try get hold of a kit based on the friction plate he'd taken out. So I can only assume he bought like-for-like.

If I can't find a solution with the mechanic, I'm tempted to get hold of a used DMF and get one back in. They're designed for a reason, despite their flaws.

The most frustrating part is that before the car went in the garage, the clutch wasn't that bad. Just the occasional slip. It didn't need replacing as a matter of urgency, I thought I'd be a clever dick and replace it because I didn't know how long it'd been in the car - I assumed it was the OEM DMF.....
If you had already bought the DMF kit were you given the option of reinstalling the new kit with DMF by your mech or was it their idea to source the Valeo clutch for the conversion?

Surely you have a bit of a argument here with them to change it for a DMF for free if it was their advice?

I agree with "Old Pug" think you will be here again if you jump on a second hand DMF and then you will loose your faith in the car because of the probs. :nono:

I shall keep you updated on how mine performs when I manage to do the job just to see if I suffer the same? :eek:
 

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If I can't find a solution with the mechanic, I'm tempted to get hold of a used DMF and get one back in. They're designed for a reason, despite their flaws.

.
But Peugeot sell a conversion kit (it's often cheaper than LUK or Valeo) and used to fit it as a warranty repair.

I can also not understand some of the companies saying you must use conversion kit on 110 BHP due to depth of flywheel and bearing throw.

A 90 BHP Flywheel and standard clutch work fine and the 90 and 110 use same bellhousing, clutch fork and slave cylinder so they must be compatible
 

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If you had already bought the DMF kit were you given the option of reinstalling the new kit with DMF by your mech or was it their idea to source the Valeo clutch for the conversion?

Surely you have a bit of a argument here with them to change it for a DMF for free if it was their advice?

I agree with "Old Pug" think you will be here again if you jump on a second hand DMF and then you will loose your faith in the car because of the probs. :nono:

I shall keep you updated on how mine performs when I manage to do the job just to see if I suffer the same? :eek:
Well ok, as promised, an update to the freaking DMF on my blue banshee 307...got the box off today (what a nightmare!) Thankyou to Windy who suffers the phone calls from me asking for ideas! (no thanks to haynes manuals that fail to mention the 110 version of the engine and the turbo pipe that needs removing)

So..ok, Box off...awesome I thought! then I happen to notice that the release bearing is falling apart "ok I got a new one?" then I take a look at the DMF, yes, still there and no conversion in place unlike Jimmy's bad luck mentioned in this thread.

I take a closer look at flywheel and you can see that my problems are just beginning!

117k...Thought the DMF had done well considering it's lasted this long, boy, was I wrong!! On closer inspection the clutch had been replaced in the past with a new DMF...sounds good eh, careful owner in the past actually had a DMF replaced.

Well yes, owner brilliant, garage absolutely shit! DMF (Valeo) clutch (LUK) whoever done this clutch needs a serious prodding up the rear passage! They used the original bolts....Pressure plate fitted with original torx bolts and been tightened by an air ratchet and the inside spines of head are rounded and seized solid....spent an hour just drilling them out, get flywheel and clutch plate off to notice that out of the 8 bolts holding flywheel onto crankshaft only 6 are fitted.

2 heads have been snapped off during a previous change/removal (obviously using air tools) these are Torx. So I now have to spend most of my Sunday trying to remove 2 broken studs left in the crankshaft from a some crappy clutch centre from the past....geez the joy of a DMF! :(

I will gladly post my obituaries upon failing this task!! :cool:
 

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Bloody hell mooseman!! that's not a saga its a total nightmare,bad luck.
Looks like a rock ape with worn out tools has done more harm than good.Your main concern will be the condition of the threads in the crank.I hope they are 100%,best of luck.
 

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Bloody hell mooseman!! that's not a saga its a total nightmare,bad luck.
Looks like a rock ape with worn out tools has done more harm than good.Your main concern will be the condition of the threads in the crank.I hope they are 100%,best of luck.
Ahh Thanks Old Pug, Here I am chuffed and in a better place now. I actually managed to drill down the center of the studs and get a stud remover in and they came out with a bit of pressure.

Looks like they were snapped off on tightening and not snapped off on removal...very pleased here!

Never touched the side of any threads on crankshaft so all good :nod: Definately brain surgery today.

can start to build her back up now, inspected the engine mount today as that was just thrown to one side yesterday and the inside metal sleeve has left the rubber mount so looks like a new mount needed?

oh well, onward and upwards :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If you had already bought the DMF kit were you given the option of reinstalling the new kit with DMF by your mech or was it their idea to source the Valeo clutch for the conversion?
The decision was to simply get hold of the kit for a solid body - after all, there were no major issues prior to replacement (ie. the judder wasn't there before it went into the garage). So, as far as I was concerned, it'd be a like-for-like, and there shouldn't be any issues.

Because the car was OK before hand, replacing the flywheel (regardless of type) would have seemed like unnecessary work and expense?

The car's going back in to the garage at some point this week, I reckon I've got a leg to stand on with regards to having it corrected.

fitting a used DMF?? you could re-start the whole saga again. If you decide to go back to O/E DMF and clutch it has to be new parts.
I suppose, I guess I'm just getting frustrated/desperate...:rolleyes:

One of the most ironic things about this is that the missus is telling me to stop tinkering with cars, trained mechanics should be doing repairs etc. So I took it to a mechanic she recommends and now the car is worse off because of it..... A perfectly good car is now a bag of **** apparently, there's always something wrong with it?!?! You just can't win......
 

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Well as promised I'll bump this thread. Today in between jobs I managed to get my final couple of hours on the car after DMF to SMF change. Everything put back nice and neat, refilled all oils, checked all connections twice and then thrice. After starting the car no screaming rats nest of a DMF but the beautiful purring sound of the HDI.

So, the pinnacle moment came to see if I was going to suffer the all to common clutch judder fault!! On my journey round the block I can happily report 100% no juddering at any revs low, mid, high and even reverse.

Beautiful soft travel of the clutch pedal, biting point midway on pedal and I can honestly say this being my first DMF to SMF clutch I can not recommend this bit of kit highly enough.

All bolts correctly tightened and torqued to the manufacturers specs and in the correct order recommended. So should anyone facing this task thinking about DMF to SMF I can personally recommend because it has worked for me that the system must be installed 110% in line with the recommendations and instructions supplied.

Speaking to a few people that have had this completed at a garage seem to suffer the judder problems. Are they using air tools instead of torquing correctly?? Are they cleaning the crank shaft face?? Are they cleaning the clutch plates with brake cleaner? Hmmm the mind boggles!!

Only problem I encountered was the seal on the poxy slave cylinder moved and that pissed fluid over my face while under the car :( lol.
 
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