Peugeot Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have a 6 yr old petrol 2000, 70000 miles. Upper engine rattle has developed recently, makes me think worn camshaft bearings although I guess pulleys can make that kind of noise. After one similar incident a week ago, yesterday restarting was a problem. It fired but died. Initially seemed to be OK with a good stamp on the gas, but then sputtered to a halt and wouldn't restart, although would still fire. Code was P0351&2, ignition coil control no spark (both1,4 & 2,3) so I replaced the coil pack. No change. Discussion across different manufacturers says coil, connector or ecu. I checked the 3 connector pins, they look fine. I believe the coil pack is working because it always fires, therefore there must be consistent power to the coil pack, and, after a lot of attention over the last day, I have never had either P0351 or P0352 in isolation so what's the chance of both earth's shorting at the same time?

I will need to look into the upper engine noise anyway. It looks like a nasty job and I would really appreciate some pointers, in particular- can the belt be changed with engine in situ (too much to expect an easy camshaft or bearing change, I'm expecting an engine out job in that case)?

Main question - can a camshaft sensor trick the ecu into logging an ignition coil fault?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
407 sv, 16 valve. Due to lack of manual (not available for this car I believe) I can't give you an exact engine type, but there is a sticker on the door pillar states 138bhp @ 6000, so that's a clue if you have access to the spec.
I've moved on a little bit. Started a thread about removing the crank pulley. I solved that & posted in maintenance.
At 70000 with heavy use, short trips, stop start, it's gotta be time for belt change either way. Yes, I can see it's not an engine out job, not saying I'll find it easy though.
I have the belt covers off and the aux belt back in place. Battery is on charge & I'll try and run it tomorrow, it will fire and sometimes run but not reliably.

The belt can be twisted 90deg easily, feels a bit loose to me, no physical damage. Can't see anything wrong with the tensioner but as i say i want to try running it.

Assuming I do go ahead and change the belt, is there a way of setting the timing from scratch? There are markers on both camshaft pulleys, a purple spot on the rear and a hole, also 2 parallel slits about 1cm, in line with radius, on the front. I could try and replicate what's there at present but if one of the cams has skipped I'll just repeat the mistake.

But, back to the original problem. If it isn't a timing problem- could something else cause the malfunction and the fault codes?

Grateful for any advice.
 
D

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
That engine is known for top end rattle after running low on oil as is the 2.2 petrol. That engine burns quite alot of oil, so id be looking towards that first. Use good quality oil, Total Quartz is whats reccommended.
Be careful doing the belt on this engine, it may not have a keyway on the crangshaft. You WILL need special tools to do the belt!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Having removed the pulley, there is a keyway- anyway I'll doublecheck tdc with plug 1 out. I'll take a good look at the camshaft sprockets at tdc, see if there are any marks aligned. But having the right tools would be better- please point me in the right direction?

Oil has been OK but thanks for the tip. It seems that there's no connection between the fault codes and timing belt wear?
 
D

·
Guest
Joined
·
0 Posts
There will be a hole in the bellhousing above the right hand driveshaft for special tool to time up crankshaft. Up to there will be holes in the cam pulleys that align with holes in the head.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Update on previous- I'm having the work done by a garage. Thank you for saving me £%^&*& and at least half a day's pointless work!

The noise/breakdown was due to timing, 2 notches out, lots of valve damage. Well, its been a cheap car to buy and run until now so no point grumbling.

The garage suggest lack of keyway on crankshaft may be the reason for the slipped timing, i.e. unless the bolt is tightened fully the timing pinion will slip. Sounds like a really stupid design. This is from their experience and yet to be confirmed from the car itself (btw this is an excellent local garage over many years). My diagram shows a slot on the pinion and a key on the crankshaft, but no doubt some engines are non-standard.

I have a question- if they're right about the reason for the slipped timing, is it likely to go wrong again? When dismantling I found that the crank pulley bolt was almost seized, if it was difficult to tighten then the torque setting wouldn't have worked. Add that to the fact that the car was sold by a lease company after 18 months- and someone had tried to pin the crank pulley (for removal?) by drilling through it- it's not looking good!

Another point arising from this is: if there is an unidentified breakdown, it might be timing- so don't try anything else especially restarting the car until the timing has been checked. Expensive lesson learned!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,073 Posts
Old post, but you seem to describe the same fault codes as my dad has on his 407 2.0 Petrol. It will usually start, but die just after it's revved for a second (almost like the idle stepper motor was not working, but I'm not convinced that is the problem).

It gets codes P0351 and P0352 when this happens. It was hard to start, but after cranking a lot at the same time as hitting the throttle quite a lot it did start.

But, that said, sometimes it works just perfect again, so I have hard to believe it is caused by the timing.

The coilpack was changed at the main dealer earlier because of the same fault. It comes and goes, and for a while it actually was gone for a period of 2-3 months. Now it's back again though.

Any pointers to check out? Is it a idle-stepper motor at all on these engines, or is the idle controlled by the electric throttlebody?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Old post, but you seem to describe the same fault codes as my dad has on his 407 2.0 Petrol.
Did you ever sort out the problem? My 407 2.0 petrol has exactly the same symptoms.

Most of the time starts fine. Sometimes nearly chokes right after revving up but recovers quickly. Sometimes chokes right after revving up. Once it chokes, on consecutive attempts it doesn't even rev up anymore. Always runs fine once gets past the start phase.

Coil pack has been changed and it fixed earlier problems of running rough when cold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,073 Posts
Actually the dealer apparently changed the engineroom fusebox. At least all the anti pollution messages are long gone now and it behaves.

But could possibly be a lot other stuff also causing similar symptoms I guess?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Old post, but you seem to describe the same fault codes as my dad has on his 407 2.0 Petrol. It will usually start, but die just after it's revved for a second (almost like the idle stepper motor was not working, but I'm not convinced that is the problem).

It gets codes P0351 and P0352 when this happens. It was hard to start, but after cranking a lot at the same time as hitting the throttle quite a lot it did start.

But, that said, sometimes it works just perfect again, so I have hard to believe it is caused by the timing.

The coilpack was changed at the main dealer earlier because of the same fault. It comes and goes, and for a while it actually was gone for a period of 2-3 months. Now it's back again though.

Any pointers to check out? Is it a idle-stepper motor at all on these engines, or is the idle controlled by the electric throttlebody?
Hey B1ack__Mi16, I have a similar situation whith an 407 2008 VF36DRFNE5L001849 That fuk$#"$& car came to me with P0351 from another workshop were they change the coilpack. The car start well for one or two seconds, after that the injectors one and four just lost it signal's. Whit my diagbox I made the test of injectors, coils, actuators, etc and everything just well, do not blows DTCs since you are doing test, only and just only start the engine, the fuc/&%$ P0153. There is no noises. I test the injectors, exchange 2 with 1 and 3 with 4, realize the all coils always get spark, compression 175psi, connectors ok, all fuses, etc.

I check the tree wires of the coilpack with my oscilloscope and the signal its ok, a perfect, normal and same signal for the one-four and the two-tree coil. The 12v supple is strong and continuous (14,3v started). Check the sparkplugs and change it just for be sure. Then I concluded the PCM was fault, buy one, cloned, installed and just the same fail.

I start to read everywhere about these fail, and even in this forum two post resolved it changing the BSM (fusebox). I bought one, installed, just the same...

What you think about bro?
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top