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Discussion Starter #1
Hello folks

Could anybody recommend the best place to obtain the camshaft locking tool for a 308 1.6VTi - 07 plate - I have the new gears but need the tool to fit them?

Have been searching but not really sure of the best place/site to buy this from.

All the best
 

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Depends on your budget!

I just bought a set at £70 from ebay. Can't comment on the quality as I am yet to use them.

There was a video someone posted off a set they had bought off ebay which had a lot of play in cam position even after locking!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hello

Thanks for your reply. I was looking at them on eBay but not sure if they're any good, and don't really want to spend too much on it for a single use!

Will contact the dealers and find out how much they sell it for but I'm sure it will be out of the budget.

Cheers
 

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I don't think you will be able to get them from dealers. They don't sell tools afaik.

Other option is to get in touch with people like Sealey or Snapon tools and see if they do a set.

My guess is IF they do, Sealey will be in the region of £150+ whereas snapon will be more like £250+

have you had a quote from a garage to do it for you and see what the price is ?

If you have never done one before, and mess it up, then it can cost you a lot more than it would do at an independent garage,

Looking at Autodata, it seems for your car, it takes 4hrs to do a timing chain replacement. Labour at an independent garage will set you back about £300 inc VAT i would guess. Then you have to pay for the chain kit as well and whilst at it, might do the water pump.

Parts:

Timing chain kit ( Euro car Parts : £200-300 depending if you want the VVT gear as well or not)
Water pump: £40-50 again from Euro Car parts

For parts, you could always also try GSF and see if they can do them any cheaper? Ebay will be cheaper, but you never know the quality you would get from ebay. If you do get ebay stuff, make sure you get a known brand ( FAI or Ellring for example, do go for un-named stuff as they will be chinese and the quality can be either good or shit! it will be a gamble.

So I think somewhere in the region of £700 from independent garage is a good start.

You can always get the parts yourself and get the garage to fit them. But if the parts then fail, it is your responsibility to pay for them to be replaced and then claim back the warranty. But if you get the garage to do the whole lot, then it is their problem if anything fails within the warranty period.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I think you're right they won't sell that tool but still looking online for one, or if somehow I can borrow/hire it, as £180 is a lot for one use.

Phoned a garage and they said just bring it in, wouldn't give me a price! I only need the new gears replaced and timing set, as the chain has been done.

The guy who replaced the chain did not use the timing tool but swore blind that the timing was spot on, so when the car wouldn't start, he said that some engines just die(hope not!) I then went to Peugeot explained the situation, and was told by the technician that the gears should have been replaced when the chain was done, due to the way the engine had been run!

I have the gears ready to fit, I just need the tool now but I might, like you say, have to look around for a garage to fit & set timing, then see if she fires up.

Are you doing the chain on the same engine soon, if so, could let me know how you get on with the tool off eBay? Cheers

Thanks for the reply
 

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Some engines just die? Really? I would stay away from the garage if I were you!

And also setting the timing up without the locking tool? In the older engines, yes fair enough . But the newer engines are different and tollerances are a lot less!

My guess for car not starting is that the timing is out! and the problem is that if the timing is out, it couldhave done some damage to the valves/pistons if it is out by a lot!

General rule, when you do the timing chain, it is always adviseable to change the gear also! It is false economy not to do it as you have now found out. You now have to pay someone to do the job again.

Did you change the water pump when they did the chain? If not, I do really advice to get that done also at the same time as again if that fails, it is engine good bye time!

I have the THP engine, which is the turbo charged one, But the tool set should be the same.

Only issue is that I am not doing the job for at least a few weeks as I need to take the head off and get some work done. Tensioner had failed on this engine and may have bent a few valves.

It is a work I will be doing over the time.

What you can do, is get the kit off ebay and see if it is any good. If there is a lot of play in the cam when locked with the tool, then you can send it back as 'Item not as described' and say you are not happy with the quality.

It will take a while to get your money back, but you will get it back.
 

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please please stay away from ebay locking tool sets!!

a garage may sell u the locking kit, just depends how friendly you are with them but they don't make a habit of doing it but ur talking around 400 quid for everything u need from them and then extra 50 quid on a torque screwdriver with very low Nm on it.

but if u did manage to get one from Peugeot dealer, be around a 6 week wait!

this is one of the ebay kits trying to "lock the timing"

http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj106/andysharp207gti/matts timing/received_10153563380750830_zpslcwd2cub.mp4

now considering the tolerance allowed by Peugeot for timing to be running fine is 2 degrees, u can see this just wont do the job!

cant stress enough the timing is not a job to do without the proper timing tool and Peugeot information!!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Cheers for that info nariman. That's how it pretty much went, so I now hope the timing was not that far out, because we kept trying different things in the hope of fixing it, over the course of four months or more but to no avail!

Water pump was not replaced when the chain was done, so will look into getting this done. Would you know if the water pump can be changed easily on it's own, or do you need the chain off?

Might just have to get the tool of eBay then, if I can't find someone to do this car. Do you think it would be worth measuring the gap between the tool and the camshaft when in the locking position with feelers, split the difference and then cut some shims to take up the play?

All the best with your one too.


Cheers



Some engines just die? Really? I would stay away from the garage if I were you!

And also setting the timing up without the locking tool? In the older engines, yes fair enough . But the newer engines are different and tollerances are a lot less!

My guess for car not starting is that the timing is out! and the problem is that if the timing is out, it couldhave done some damage to the valves/pistons if it is out by a lot!

General rule, when you do the timing chain, it is always adviseable to change the gear also! It is false economy not to do it as you have now found out. You now have to pay someone to do the job again.

Did you change the water pump when they did the chain? If not, I do really advice to get that done also at the same time as again if that fails, it is engine good bye time!

I have the THP engine, which is the turbo charged one, But the tool set should be the same.

Only issue is that I am not doing the job for at least a few weeks as I need to take the head off and get some work done. Tensioner had failed on this engine and may have bent a few valves.

It is a work I will be doing over the time.

What you can do, is get the kit off ebay and see if it is any good. If there is a lot of play in the cam when locked with the tool, then you can send it back as 'Item not as described' and say you are not happy with the quality.

It will take a while to get your money back, but you will get it back.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hello

I asked on a reply from nariman what about 'fixing the tool' what do you think, worth a shot?

"Do you think it would be worth measuring the gap between the tool and the camshaft when in the locking position with feelers, split the difference and then cut some shims to take up the play?"

Just a suggestion but maybe worth a try! Thanks for the info and the video, might just have no choice but to take it to a garage then.

Cheers



please please stay away from ebay locking tool sets!!

a garage may sell u the locking kit, just depends how friendly you are with them but they don't make a habit of doing it but ur talking around 400 quid for everything u need from them and then extra 50 quid on a torque screwdriver with very low Nm on it.

but if u did manage to get one from Peugeot dealer, be around a 6 week wait!

this is one of the ebay kits trying to "lock the timing"

http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj106/andysharp207gti/matts timing/received_10153563380750830_zpslcwd2cub.mp4

now considering the tolerance allowed by Peugeot for timing to be running fine is 2 degrees, u can see this just wont do the job!

cant stress enough the timing is not a job to do without the proper timing tool and Peugeot information!!
 

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I also thought about using shims if it is moving too much when cams are locked.

As long as you use a perfect solid shim and it is locking the cam with even space in all 3 corners, and makes the movement less than 2', then why not? Worth a try.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Hi, do you mean the 3 inside faces of the tool? I was thinking of four shims (of the correct thickness), one for each contacting face on the tool!

Cheers


I also thought about using shims if it is moving too much when cams are locked.

As long as you use a perfect solid shim and it is locking the cam with even space in all 3 corners, and makes the movement less than 2', then why not? Worth a try.
 

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yes, 3 contacting faces . Don't worry about the 4th face ( between cam and engine block). If 3 faces are all nice and equally spaced, then you are fine.

As mentioned by someone else before, the tolerance is less than 2'. As long as your shim limits the side to side movement to less than 2', you should be fine. Well this is what I will be working on.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Hi, did you mean six shims in total, 3 for each cam?

I mean 4 shims in total, two for each of the contacting faces of the locking tool-to-cam, the upper inside face on the tool does not contact the cams!

Cheers


yes, 3 contacting faces . Don't worry about the 4th face ( between cam and engine block). If 3 faces are all nice and equally spaced, then you are fine.

As mentioned by someone else before, the tolerance is less than 2'. As long as your shim limits the side to side movement to less than 2', you should be fine. Well this is what I will be working on.
 

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just wanted to give you an update on the camshaft locking tool I got from ebay.

It is marked 'Bergen' I think on the tool box.

There is a slight play in the camshaft ( inlet specially) but it is not near the 2' that they recommend for error. So It was ok in my case.

I timed it using the kit and all is good. Engine running smooth and no power issues or fault codes.

I didn't use any shimms to limit the movement.

Hope this helps.

This is only my experience. So others might be different.
 
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