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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
Did some changes today as I'm not too keen on magnolia bulbs...changed to LEDs....


NB: See update for boot and front courtesy light. Post #20. The new LEDs do not have any of the slight 'blue-ish' tinge that shows in these photos of the interior (although that is less noticeable to the naked eye).

Rear Number plate: I also used a different type of LED in the number plate lights: see post #21 for info.


Boot light now LED:


Rear Number plate lights now LEDs: NB:Excessive red on rear of car caused by tail lights reflecting off the white interior of my garage door.


Front courtesy light now LED (very bright and white):


I'm also looking at doing the rear brake lights/rear side lights/fog light/reversing light/turn indicators......trouble is I don't really fancy pulling the trim etc apart just yet....probably will though....maybe later....

PS: ...Oh...nearly forgot the high (third) brake light. I tested 4 LEDs in there today and they were fine but they were white LEDs and you must put a matching colour LED behind a coloured lens....need to order 4 Red LEDs.....

...may also look to see whether Philips do a WhiteVision bulb for the headlights.......:light:

PPS: Incidently, I used non-canbus LEDs in these locations as they do not have built-in resistors and run a little cooler but CanBus compatible LEDs will most certainly be required in the turn indicators to avoid any hyper-flashing....and possibly in the brake, rear side/position to avoid a 'bulb out' warning.


PPPS:...as I may have mentioned on other posts any changes you make are your choice to do as I can only comment on my own experience.


NB: See update for boot and front courtesy light. Post #20. The new LEDs do not have any of the slight 'blue-ish' tinge that shows in these photos of the interior (although that is less noticeable to the naked eye).

Rear Number plate: I also used a different type of LED in the number plate lights: see post #21 for info.



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You don't have to put a coloured LED behind a coloured lens. When you think about it the bulb is white.
But you do get a more intense colour with a coloured LED.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Here's a post from my 308 bulb to LED thread which I think demonstrates the reason why you need a coloured LED behind a coloured lens; in addition I have already tested my lens but with white LEDs and the result was very poor as I expected. I just wanted to test to ensure the Non-CanBus compatible type worked ok.

Quote from my 308 Post:

You can install any colour LED behind a clear or opaque lens. Choose a colour suitable for purpose. i.e. Amber for turn indicators etc. Interior footwells can be white or a colour of your choice; just ensure they are dimmable if your version has the same function as my Allure.


Coloured lens' should have a matching coloured LED. i.e. Red lens = red LED; Amber lens = amber LED.

A white LED behind a coloured lens 'dilutes' the colour and is not as bright. This because a red lens will allow the red wavelength of the spectrum through and block the others, and there is very little of the red spectrum in a white LED.


PS: I found this example which I feel demonstrates this quite clearly:





NB: The colour choice should be appropriate according to the laws in the Country you are driving.


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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Accessing high(third) brake light bulbs

Just in case anyone needs to replace a blown bulb or change to LEDs I have taken some photos to show how to get to them.

It is fiddly but not difficult and on no account should you use any force.

First you need to open the boot and remove the black cover. Prise from one side first with a trim removal tool:


The next couple of photos show the little plastic clips that need pressing towards the centre slightly NO FORCE IS NEEDED! (Incidently I had to use an old mirror to get these shots):




It is fiddly to get the bulb holder bar back** so have a little patience and don't force anything!!

**TIP: After you release the clips have a little practice relocating the bulb bar before you fully get it out through the access opening to change to LEDs/replace blown bulbs.

See next post........

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
...the next photo shows the bulb holder gently removed:



...the next photo, unplugged.... if you need to...but you should not need to do this...make sure you refit the plug correctly:



Hope that's been of help.

Al. :thumb:

PS: TIP: Test leds/ bulbs before refitting bulb bar just in case you need to re-seat or turn LEDs ... you can just press the brake pedal...no need to start the car...open the door and just put your leg in whilst standing outside looking backwards....:clap:


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Discussion Starter #6
Decided to try these for the high/third brake light:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extremely-150Lums-Generation-Non-Polarity-12V-24V/dp/B01KY7GD0Y/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1538825317&sr=8-29&keywords=t10+led+red

There's not much room in the fitting so size is important.

These are also non-canbus so there's less heat created.

NB: If you order any then check the 5% extra discount before adding to basket, this is applied at checkout.

Extra reason is that LEDs react slightly faster than bulbs. It can make the difference of around 6 feet stopping for following vehicles in an emergency and I'd rather have a lorry stopping 6 inches off my rear boot door as opposed to travelling 5' 6" through it !!
 

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If you use a warm white LED, it should work behind a red lens the same as a bulb, but a cool white would not as the blue won't go through red.
You are, of course, always better using the same colour LED.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Hi Brian, LEDs produce light very differently to bulbs. They are manufactured to produce a specific colour although you can get them with a separate controller to change the colour but they would need to be behind a clear lens for the changing wavelengths to be seen correctly.

The lens' in our cars are really designed for bulbs and I'm pretty sure you will get a poor brightness and dull colour with anything other than a red LED behind a red lens due to the wavelength passing through. It gets 'diluted'.

A red LED behind a red lens will allow the colour of the spectrum to pass through together with the bonus of more brightness.

I'll be doing a couple of before and after photos when I change them over. Fingers crossed they'll fit! :thumb:

Al.

PS: Bonus points are that LEDs react faster than bulbs and it will give a fraction more warning to following traffic. They will also be brighter. They consume less power. The ones I've just ordered consume 1.7W x 4= 6,8W total as against the standard bulb 5W x 4= 20W. That's not going to save a lot overall in the brake light but when you add all the areas you can install LEDs it can save unnecessary drain on the battery. The down side is that decent quality LEDs are a little expensive (I would not consider the cheaper ones as they often do not perform very well or last very long).


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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
You can see in this video how an LED achieves full brightness instantly compared to a standard bulb:





PS: The LED being demonstrated here is not the same fitting as used in the 108...it's purely to compare a bulb and LED. Please refer to your handbook for your vehicles correct fitting.

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
LEDs from Amazon arrived and fitted. What a difference to the high brake light...amazing improvement:

This is the oem bulbs:


...and this is the new red LEDs:


Changing over took just a few minutes to do and the improvement is just incredible.

They are a direct comparison before/after reflected onto my garage door interior. you need to see them really with the naked eye for the true improvement. Very pleased.

Al.:thumb:


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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
These are the red LEDs I fitted to the high level brake light:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extremely-150Lums-Generation-Non-Polarity-12V-24V/dp/B01KY7GD0Y/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1538825317&sr=8-29&keywords=t10+led+red

They are Non-CanBus compatible (ie: they have no minature resistor in them) so they will not be suitable in a car where the lighting circuit is monitored without a separate resistor being fitted.

I do not like the separate resistors as they get extremely hot and need air space around them. They should not be mounted on any plastic part; only fix them to metal.

You will definitely require CanBus compatible PY21W Amber in the turn indicators otherwise you will get hyper-flashing as if a bulb has blown. Some cars (mainly of German manufacture) may still need separate resistors.

I fitted CanBus compatible amber LEDs in my 2008 and I currently have them fitted in my 308. They work perfectly.

https://www.2008ownersclub.co.uk/forum/14-technical/299-bulb-change-led.html

https://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/308-2014-122/led-suggestions-new308-200010/

In a confined space (like the rear number plate lights) then you should fit non-CanBus as the heat with the resistor will cause the LED to fail...!

As the 108 is classed as a 'Town' car I feel the current bulbs in most main areas are adequate so I'm still pondering over swapping the main bulbs due to the cost and we have this car on the 'Passport' scheme so we'll be changing in around 3 years anyway to the newer version at that time.

The high brake light, boot, front courtesy, number plate are all non-CanBus, low cost and easy enough to swap over and so are the front turn indicators easy to swap but they will need to be CanBus compatible, but they will be more expensive at around £25 or so to do!


PS: The LEDs I used in the high brake light are not only non-CanBus they are also non=Polarity which means they can be inserted and will work, ie: there is no +/- way to bother about. Saying that it is still a good idea to check they are all seated correctly and they all work before clipping everything back.


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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Just in case you decide to change to LEDs or need to replace a blown bulb in the rear light clusters here's a couple of tips:

After you remove the small screw under the little flap next to the boot door on the interior trim and remove the centre pin and pull out the little fastener bung* next to the rear seat there is a small nut to remove when you gently pull away the trim. You will need an 8mm socket to release the little retaining nut that is in an awkward position and there is a danger of it falling inside.

You only need to release the tightness then you can use your fingers but I would suggest you use a cloth to fill in the void below and to the sides of the nut to prevent it falling into the panel if it slips from your fingers. The tip of the thread is smooth to help you avoid dropping the nut and this helps as a guide when replacing it.

You can then remove the light cluster from the outside but you may find it difficult to pull the little locking lugs from their very tight holding retainers.

There is one near the top and one near the lower area of the lens. They cannot be accessed and you need to pull the cluster away so they pop out of the retainers.

I found it easier to stand at the side of the car and push sharply on the side of the cluster towards to back whilst wearing a rubber glove. This should 'pop' the cluster off. Don't push too hard as you don't want to cause any damage; just a short sharp action should do it as you are only releasing the two little lugs from their retainers.

Just before you replace the cluster after swapping/changing your LED/bulb rub a little WD40 or vaseline on both the little lugs to make removal easier in the future.

*NB: You don't have to remove the little fastener bung near the rear seat but it does give you a little better access.


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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
In the previous post I mentioned how to release the rear light clusters.

Here's a few photos to show the items I mentioned:

This is the small screw that you need to remove by the boot door (next to the little bag hook).


This is the bung that needs to be removed near the rear seat (centre pin shown partly released).


,,,and this is the location of the small nut that needs removing with care (socket wrench shown on nut).


...as I mentioned; once you take off the tension on the nut it's quite easy to use your fingers to remove it...but don't drop it in the process!!


NB: You don't have to remove the little fastener bung near the rear seat but it does give you a little better access.




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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Re: Rear light cluster removal.

The reason I mention the following is because I don't want anyone to use too much force in trying to remove the rear light cluster and do any damage!


Well, try as I might I have not been able to release the rear light cluster.

I've tried several ways with various trim removal tools; the last way was to fix some wide, extremely sticky and extremely strong, sticky tape and pull.

It felt as though there is a central screw that is still holding it, apart from the small nut I've mentioned previously that needs to be carefully removed. There's movement in the cluster but it just will not release the little location lugs from their retainers.

I had no problem with the 2008 or my 308 in freeing the lugs and that is why I feel there is maybe another screw or nut to release that the handbook doesn't mention, or there is a modification to the newer cars.







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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
I had a trip down to the dealers and a mechanic there said you need to remove two concealed special headed screws with a special tool and they can only be accessed by removing trim panels!!

That'll be fun on a dark winters night in the rain if a bulb blows!

Why does the handbook say how to do it when it actually can't be done that way?

I've asked my friendly salesman to check this out for me as I can't believe someone decided to make a simple job of changing a bulb so complicated...no point in carrying a pack of spare bulbs if you can't swap them over easily...and in some Countries it's the law that you have to carry a set!

Probably due to Brexit...everything else in the World that goes wrong seems to be! :cursing:


NB: Please see my next post regarding removal of rear light cluster:



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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Update:

The fitting is still fastened as before with the extra lugs on the 'outside' area of the cluster top and bottom.

Mine was very tight and it needed a wide but thin trim tool to remove it. Top first then the lower near the bottom.

The chap at the dealers had to use a lot more force than I was prepared to use.

"It takes a brave man to tackle this" he remarked as he gave it a hefty thump!

Reversing bulb now replaced with LED. :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
This is the type of LED I fitted to the reverse light (not from this supplier):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tonsee-White-Backup-Reverse-Canbus/dp/B01HB9VKGU/ref=sr_1_cc_3?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1540454700&sr=1-3-catcorr&keywords=p21w+led+white+30W

It not only gives side light to utilise the reflector but also projection LEDs beneath a dome lens on the tip.

This LED is a few years old now as I used it in two previous cars. I thought I would test it in my wife's 108 as it was just lying in a drawer in my garage.

Newer versions are now available and I'm sure that most of them will be a big improvement on the standard OEM bulb.

This is the style of LED I now have fitted in my 308 (although that has a different cap): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Safego-Bright-Parking-Signal-Sidelight/dp/B072BW6RKD/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1540454587&sr=8-16&keywords=p21w+led+white

I've just shown the ones available from Amazon but other suppliers are available....Amazon though do have a very good returns policy should you get a duff one!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1/257-4342349-6321115?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=p21w+led+white


So, if you wish you could see better when reversing up a path or into your garage on a dark winters night, then this may be all you need to do.



PS:...as I may have mentioned on other posts any changes you make are your choice to do as I can only comment on my own experience.



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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
The red LEDs I fitted in the third (high) brake light made such an improvement that I thought I would get some in white for the boot and front courtesy.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMAZENAR-Extremely-300Lums-Generation-Non-Polarity/dp/B01KY7GCY6/ref=sr_1_270?ie=UTF8&qid=1540503954&sr=8-270&keywords=t10+led+bulbs+white

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMAZENAR-Extremely-300Lums-Generation-Non-Polarity/dp/B07DHMGFQF/ref=sr_1_28?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1541755293&sr=1-28&keywords=Amazenar+t10+led+bulbs+white

I have fitted non-canbus LEDs in there but they are very old ones that I used in previous cars.

Being as this is a new 108 I thought I'd splash out for some new LEDs.

I had to buy 4 so I'll use 2 in the 108 and I'll try another in the boot light on my 308 as I think it will be a big improvement on the old LED I have in there....and one for a spare.


PS: These will be a bit too bright for the rear number plate.


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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMAZENAR-Extremely-300Lums-Generation-Non-Polarity/dp/B01KY7GCY6/ref=sr_1_270?ie=UTF8&qid=1540503954&sr=8-270&keywords=t10+led+bulbs+white

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMAZENAR-Extremely-300Lums-Generation-Non-Polarity/dp/B07DHMGFQF/ref=sr_1_28?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1541755293&sr=1-28&keywords=Amazenar+t10+led+bulbs+white

Pleased to say the new LEDs have arrived at long last.

Big improvement in the boot area:



..and I was so pleased I replaced the older LED in my 308.
Very impressive improvement in there:



Here is the front in our new 108.
Massive improvement:



As I mentioned before these will be far to bright for the rear number plate but they are brilliant for the boot area and front courtesy lights.

See post #21 on next page for rear number plate suggestion.

:thumb:

PS: I took these photos in the darkness of my garage.



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