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Discussion Starter · #21 · (Edited)
Hi
Just a quick update checked the fuses
6 ,9 and 13
They all have voltage when the ignition is on.
I also unplugged the 2 connections on the fuel pump with the ignition on and jumper wire in place.
What I thought was the fuel pump noise continued humming.
So the humming noise must be somthing else extremely close to high pressure fuel pump.

Thanks
 

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I checked the 2 plugs to pump both are secure and wires are secure and clean.
The pump itself is mechanical. One plug controls a solenoid on the fuel input side and the other is the pressure regulator on the output side. Both these devices are powered by F10.

There is a third plug in the centre of the fuel rail which is the high pressure monitor (if you look at the injector diagram I supplied you can see it in the centre of the fuel rail).

Hi
Just a quick update checked the fuses
6 ,9 and 13
They all have voltage when the ignition is on.
I also unplugged the 2 connections on the fuel pump with the ignition on and jumper wire in place.
What I thought was the fuel pump noise continued humming.
So the humming noise must be something else extremely close to high pressure fuel pump.
Good to know that there is power at those fuses, it confirms the BSM's microprocessor is working to some extent. Why it's not driving R2 is another matter, it could be the relay driver has failed.

Unplugging those two plugs will probably stop the fuel supply. The pump is mechanical so this wouldn't stop it turning.

Edit:
I thought I would add the instructions for the removing and refitting the high pressure pump. I was expecting it to contain a procedure to release pressure but it doesn't mention it. I guess there is only low volume of fuel so you will not get too much high pressure spray.

One way to test the pump would be to crank the engine and then loosen a high pressure line to see if fuel spays out. Probably worth wearing goggles to do that.
 

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Sorry not had a chance to do anything else.Have family commitments.Will update asap
That's good it gave me more time to think about your problem.

I just had a third person report a problem with no power at F10 and F5. After a bit on internet searching I now think the relay you cut open is R1. R1 turns R2 on but on the wiring diagram for some version of the Expert it also has a power line going back to the engine ECU which is probably just to confirm the relay is closed.

There is a possibility that at least on some vehicles relay R1 and/or R2 only closes when the engine is cranked or running. I can see no harm in leaving the jumper in while you sort out the fuel injection problem but once that's fixed it would be worth trying to see if the vehicle will start without the jumper. Putting the jumper in on a 407 certainly allowed that car to start.

I know you have been operating the hand pump but the Servicebox instruction say to operate it for one minute so the high pressure pump may not be properly primed. You fault codes also suggest a fault with at least one injector. Unfortunately, the code doesn't give the actual voltage so we don't know if the injector is jamming or if its coil is faulty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
Hi.Hopefully get a few hours before rain.
I don't think on my van the jumpering of a F5 and F10 with 12v supply has helped my issues.

I am pretty sure I lack an earth supply to relays,
As I have cut open the BSM I applied an earth to energise a relay and all relays latched.Then F5 and F10 had a healthy 12v.

I am currently checking the wiring diagrams.
To chase the earth supplies.
It looks like on diagrams R2 and R3 get a Earth supply to energise relay from the microprocessor?
And the main earth supply is from ECU leaving ECU on H3 to pin 8 on the plug 28V NR? Cable 1226.
There also seems to be various other pins on BSM that have earths.
Pin 16,9,11,12,23?
If I am reading diagram correctly

As with the injectors I previously checked all injectors with multimeter and the injectors themselves all had same resistance.
As for supplies to them the readings were very weird.

Thanks
 

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I think the relay you cut open is R1 not R2. R1 gets its earth from the engine ECU. This is for a 407 petrol engine but the relay connections are the same: https://frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68187

The injectors should operate with 12V. However, the 12V is probably just a short pulse and when the pulse stops the injectors coil generates a large voltage (40 to 90V) when it de-energises.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·

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As for voltages going to injectors I did see a 90v on one of the injectors,only for a brief moment
How are you measuring this voltage. You need an oscilloscope to see it properly.
You should only see the high voltage for a brief moment. However, I think 90V is too high which fits with one of your fault codes. I suspect that injector is jamming.

BTW when microprocessors switch relays it is common for them to switch the negative side of the relay's coil to ground.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
This site gives a good explanation of the injector voltage: Fuel Injector Circuit Waveforms
Hi Just a quick update.Not had much time to do van as school holidays .
But the fault is the BSM.
I managed to locate a 2nd hand unit,quite expensive as it's the L05-00.
Took ages to bleed system,in the end had to use the dreaded Easy start.
Then it fired up after a few long squirts.
Re checked with autel scanner.Only two codes showing.
One of which is fuel pressure very high.
Which I will investigate asap.
Will upload fault codes soon
 

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If it uses piezo injectors then the voltage can be 200+ at the injector.

You may see a small amount of fuel if you crack a HP union but it's not a good way to confirm if pump is working, in most cases if ECU does not see pressure rise it assumes a leak and sets pressure regulator to recirculate fuel in pump to ensure no high pressure leak and to stop pump damage from running dry and you see no significant fuel even thought pump is fine
 

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If it uses piezo injectors then the voltage can be 200+ at the injector.

You may see a small amount of fuel if you crack a HP union but it's not a good way to confirm if pump is working, in most cases if ECU does not see pressure rise it assumes a leak and sets pressure regulator to recirculate fuel in pump to ensure no high pressure leak and to stop pump damage from running dry and you see no significant fuel even thought pump is fine
Interesting comment but it’s clear from the thread that the injectors are the conventional solenoid type. The 40 to 90V range is what the diagnostics was expecting. This doesn’t seem to be an issue any more but I wonder why only one injector was reading 90V. Given that the measurement was done with a multimeter I suspect the peak voltage was probably even higher.

It sounds like low pressure was because the pump wasn’t primed properly. I understand the diagnostics is now reporting that pressure is too high. I think the regular was supplied with the new pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Interesting comment but it’s clear from the thread that the injectors are the conventional solenoid type. The 40 to 90V range is what the diagnostics was expecting. This doesn’t seem to be an issue any more but I wonder why only one injector was reading 90V. Given that the measurement was done with a multimeter I suspect the peak voltage was probably even higher.

It sounds like low pressure was because the pump wasn’t primed properly. I understand the diagnostics is now reporting that pressure is too high. I think the regular was supplied with the new pump.
Hi.
The high pressure fuel fault seems to have been the MAF sensor.It is now an exceptable pressure.
The van started and ran for over 1 hour,it then switched itself off.
I restarted immediately but cuts off after approx 10 seconds when left on idle.800rpm
But when revved only.slightly will continue to run .
But when resumes idle again the engine will stop.But restarts easily on one crank.

Using the Autel scanner the following codes have appeared.
Strangely enough the latching relay code was one of my original fault codes.

Thanks
 

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Hi.
The high pressure fuel fault seems to have been the MAF sensor.It is now an exceptable pressure.
The van started and ran for over 1 hour,it then switched itself off.
I restarted immediately but cuts off after approx 10 seconds when left on idle.800rpm
But when revved only.slightly will continue to run .
But when resumes idle again the engine will stop.But restarts easily on one crank.

Using the Autel scanner the following codes have appeared.
Strangely enough the latching relay code was one of my original fault codes.

Thanks
I would have expected changing the BSM would have fixed some of these faults. Did you clear the faults after you changed the BSM?

There seems to be a new speed sensor (crankshaft sensor) fault which may also be the reason for the ABS fault code. If the sensor is faulty the van wouldn't start but I guess it could be intermittent. On diesels the crankshaft sensor normally monitors a ring behind the crankshaft's notched pulley. Perhaps some debris has got in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
I would have expected changing the BSM would have fixed some of these faults. Did you clear the faults after you changed the BSM?

There seems to be a new speed sensor (crankshaft sensor) fault which may also be the reason for the ABS fault code. If the sensor is faulty the van wouldn't start but I guess it could be intermittent. On diesels the crankshaft sensor normally monitors a ring behind the crankshaft's notched pulley. Perhaps some debris has got in there.
Hi Thanks for assistance.
I did clear all the fault codes after BSM change.
I did initially check crankshaft sensor.But will recheck tomorrow,I know it's quite mucky around that area.
The P1693 looks suspicious,some code definitions state FUEL TEMPERATURE sensor.
But I cannot find location on engine,I gather.it's between filter and high pressure pump.Will.check tomorrow.got a few hours.

Thanks

Also when I hold revs at 1100rpm engine is fine.
Only cuts out at tick over 800rpm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Hi Thanks for assistance.
I did clear all the fault codes after BSM change.
I did initially check crankshaft sensor.But will recheck tomorrow,I know it's quite mucky around that area.
The P1693 looks suspicious,some code definitions state FUEL TEMPERATURE sensor.
But I cannot find location on engine,I gather.it's between filter and high pressure pump.Will.check tomorrow.got a few hours.

Thanks

Also when I hold revs at 1100rpm engine is fine.
Only cuts out at idle 800rpm.Yet it ran for over 1 hour when first started on Easy start.
 

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I just realised that P0500 is vehicle speed not engine speed so shouldn’t be related to the engine problem. You probably right about there being a fuel system/mixture problem.

I also see there is a problem with the pre-post heating relay or the glow plugs (P1351). The relay is probably mounted away from the engine and is item 1158 in the injection wiring diagram. This code has changed slightly it was previously 1352 plugs permanently on now they are not receiving power.

Apparently code P1693 is a manufacture specific code. For Peugeots it appears to be a CAN bus communication issue between the BSI and engine ECU and I think U2001 is part of the same issue. It can't be too serious because the van is starting.

I have attached a installation diagram for Expert 3 DW10 engine. Servicebox doesn’t give this diagram for all the Expert 3 engines but this might give you an idea where 1221 diesel thermistor and 1158 pre-post heat relay are located.
 

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Looking at the new fault codes I think something odd has happened with the BSI. There are usually 3 CAN buses which are all associated with the BSI and there are some odd CAN bus errors on at least two CAN buses.
 
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