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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone

i have a 2008 Peugeot expert 2.0 HDI.
RHK engine code.
Engine Not starting,cranks fine.
No fuel pressure.
Keys are recognised.
Bsi and Ecu matched.
Cam and crank synchronised.

I am thinking the fault is with the BSM.
Is it possible someone has got a wiring diagram for the BSM.it's-00
It looks like one Relay may not be getting a supply to the relay coil. So not closing the contacts to allow fuel pump to run.

Possibly more than one relay.
I am struggling to find where the relays receive there switching current from.
Is it 12v or a ground supply.

My BSM is completely dry.immaculate condition.Lots of fault codes.
Any assistance greatly received.

Many thanks
 

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I think the best you will be able to get is the Injection wiring diagram that shows part of the BSM. I think Expert's 2.0l HDI RKH engine is the DW10UTED4 in Peugeot SEDRE wiring diagrams so I have attached a copy of the injection wiring diagram for an Expert 3 with that engine.

I think the relay you are looking for is R2 in PFS1 (BSM plus maxi-fuse box) which controls power to fuse F10. If you have a multimeter you could see if there is any voltage on F10 when the ignition is on. The problem with the BSM is that it is sealed and even if you can cut it open you need some good desoldering equipment to get it apart to work on.

You say the engine ECU and BSI are matched which is a good sign. If you look at the engine ECU data is it unlocked?

You mention you had several fault codes. This can be due to a bus problem. For example the BSM is linked by its own bus to the BSI.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Ian
I would like to thank you for your assistance.
the ECU is unlocked.
And there is no voltage on f5 or f10 although I only tested with a screwdriver test light,Croc clip on one end type.
I did reverse this at one point.ie put Croc clip on 12v and screwdriver lit when touched on f5 and f10. (Is that right? )
Seems it may suggest earth on f5 and f10 circuit.
I did somewhere that turbo or EGR connections can fail and draw off voltage or short to earth.
But I may have been dreaming as it's niggling me at night.lol

I also changed the ECU and a matched bsi/key etc Complete with clocks.

But still the fault persists.so changed back to original equipment.

I am guessing can only be BSM or wiring.

I have checked wiring as best I can without removing harness all seems ok.

Any further assistance greatly appreciated
Many thanks
 

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And there is no voltage on f5 or f10 although I only tested with a screwdriver test light,Croc clip on one end type.
I did reverse this at one point.ie put Croc clip on 12v and screwdriver lit when touched on f5 and f10. (Is that right? )
Seems it may suggest earth on f5 and f10 circuit.

I am guessing can only be BSM or wiring.

Many thanks
All this suggest the BSM relay R2 is not closing. When you connected your screwdriver light from 12V to F10/F5 I would expect it glow because the devices connected to these fuses is completing the circuit to ground.

Have you checked the earths for the BSM? I have attached an earth diagram. BSM earths are MC20 and MC22. I would also check all the other engine compartment earths.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
All this suggest the BSM relay R2 is not closing. When you connected your screwdriver light from 12V to F10/F5 I would expect it glow because the devices connected to these fuses is completing the circuit to ground.

Have you checked the earths for the BSM? I have attached an earth diagram. BSM earths are MC20 and MC22. I would also check all the other engine compartment earths.
Great thanks for that.
I did check but no harm in checking twice.

Thanks
 

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I also changed the ECU and a matched bsi/key etc Complete with clocks.

But still the fault persists.so changed back to original equipment.

I am guessing can only be BSM or wiring.
A faulty BSM is quite possible. I had 407 owner with a problem on the same relay R2 that power F5 and F10 last week. He got his car started by tapping power off another fuse. This was okay for a short test but is not a solution because it overloads the contacts on another relay.

I would be worth checking if there is power on any of the BSM fuses.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A faulty BSM is quite possible. I had 407 owner with a problem on the same relay R2 that power F5 and F10 last week. He got his car started by tapping power off another fuse. This was okay for a short test but is not a solution because it overloads the contacts on another relay.

I would be worth checking if there is power on any of the BSM fuses.
Hi.

I did take 12v on a jumper wire to F10 and I then had power at F5.
I then Could hear fuel pump.But alas it never started.I assumed there may have been other components not receiving voltage.

History of van.Before I purchased it broke down and a local garage diagnosed fuel pump.They replaced with brand new genuine pump.The owner then had a enough of spending money.Then I purchased as non runner.

When I first started tests.I placed my beloved testing screwdriver on F5 with ignition on,and there was NO power.But I left it connected and stood drinking tea.After about 3 mins a relay made a gree greing noise and relay contacts closed and screwdriver lit.

Thinking I will change the Ecu and bsi over again with matched key.And try.

Otherwise it looks like I will be in proving my soldering skills
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Was high pressure fuel pump that was changed.
Probably has air in fuel lines so hinders starting immediately
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just wondering is the any security features that would stop high pressure fuel pump running.
Fuel cut off inertia switch.
Or anti theft device

Thanks
 

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Hi.

I did take 12v on a jumper wire to F10 and I then had power at F5.
I then Could hear fuel pump.But alas it never started.I assumed there may have been other components not receiving voltage.
Did you recheck the fuel rail pressure with the OBD tester when you heard the fuel pump running? Most other things that would normally stop the van staring seem to be okay:
Immobiliser has unlocked the engine ECU
The cam and crank sensors are in synch
The van is cranking

Given that the immobiliser has unlocked the ECU there should be no other security feature stopping it starting.

You need to check the fuel rail pressure with the high pressure pump running. If that's okay I guess the injectors need looking at.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Hi
I watched live data on Autel scanner.
There was no fuel pressure at all while cranking.
Tried bleeding the air out of system.
Made sure bulb was always primed fully.

Got a small amount of diesel from the 2 injectors to the left as you look underbonnet.
And nothing at all to the other 2.
I have been told they can be an absolute nightmare to bleed after fuel pump change.

Was wondering about tow start or maybe try spraying brake cleaner into air intake.

Forgot to mentioned checked voltage at F5 and F10
Voltage was 0.84v.
Then I jumpered a 12v feed from adjacent fuse to get pump running.
Thinking there maybe somthing drawing voltage down.short ?

Thanks
 

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Forgot to mentioned checked voltage at F5 and F10
Voltage was 0.84v.
Then I jumpered a 12v feed from adjacent fuse to get pump running.
Thinking there maybe somthing drawing voltage down.short ?

Thanks
If there was short circuit or high current drain it would blow the fuse. The fact that when you put the jumper in you got 12V suggests that either the relay R2 contacts are burnout or there is a dry solder joint.

It sounds like someone replaced an expensive fuel pump when they should have replaced the BSM. You may be right about the bleeding of the fuel system. I think there should be a fuel filter near the high pressure pump could this be blocked?

I think the Expert has two pumps. The fuel sender in the tank and the high pressure pump on the engine. Which pump did you hear running?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
If there was short circuit or high current drain it would blow the fuse. The fact that when you put the jumper in you got 12V suggests that either the relay R2 contacts are burnout or there is a dry solder joint.

It sounds like someone replaced an expensive fuel pump when they should have replaced the BSM. You may be right about the bleeding of the fuel system. I think there should be a fuel filter near the high pressure pump could this be blocked?

I think the Expert has two pumps. The fuel sender in the tank and the high pressure pump on the engine. Which pump did you hear running?
Yes I agree.I believe real issue was not the high pressure fuel pump.

I heard the high pressure pump on end of the camshaft.I removed the pipe from high pressure pump and squeezed primer bulb,fuel shot out of the pipe.So I don't believe that there is a blockage.

I have cut into R2 relay case and removed the cover, contacts are nice and clean and close making full contact.
I think I will try resoldering and check for dry joints as I am thinking like you.Dry joint.
Not the easiest to get to,but not impossible.
Like you suggest.Possible injector fault as well.
When trying to bleed could only get fuel out of 2.
Luckily I have a 2010 expert with RHK engine to swap injectors.
Shame BSM is completely different lol.

Thanks
 

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Yes I agree.I believe real issue was not the high pressure fuel pump.

I heard the high pressure pump on end of the camshaft.I removed the pipe from high pressure pump and squeezed primer bulb,fuel shot out of the pipe.So I don't believe that there is a blockage.

I have cut into R2 relay case and removed the cover, contacts are nice and clean and close making full contact.
I think I will try resoldering and check for dry joints as I am thinking like you.Dry joint.
Not the easiest to get to,but not impossible.
Like you suggest.Possible injector fault.
When trying to bleed could only get fuel out of 2.

Thanks
It is just odd there is no pressure in the fuel rail
Here a few diagrams that may help. The injection pump bracket actually shows the high pressure pump. This pump has an electro valve that is power by F10. I wonder if this not working.
 

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I have cut into R2 relay case and removed the cover, contacts are nice and clean and close making full contact.

Thanks
Did you try your screw driver light on both sides of the relay contacts to see if there is power there?

Given that some work was done on the fuel system is it possible the high pressure sensor has been unplugged. if fuel is reaching the high pressure pump it makes no sense for there to be no pressure in the fuel rail. I don't know if this happens but it wouldn't surprise me if the ECU shut down the injectors if there was no pressure.
 

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I just had another look through your photos of the BSM and the fault codes. I think the fault codes all relate to the lack of voltage at F10. I am surprised there isn’t fuel rail pressure fault code.

The most interesting code is P1169 ”Injector voltage converter voltage more than 90 Volts or less than 40 Volts”. Like all coils (e.g. ignition coil) the injector coil creates a large transient voltage when it’s switched off. The ECU is monitoring this voltage. It would be good to know if this code clears when the bypass wire is in place.

I assume the relay with the cover removed is R2. When the BSM is installed in the van are you able to see if the relay contacts have closed?

This video may be of interest:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Hi
The relay contacts DO NOT close with ignition on also they DO NOT close during cranking.yes I believe it's R2.I think there is picture in previous messages.

Yes there is voltage to the relay.

I applied an earth to one side of relay coil and contacts closed.
It seems to me the coil side of relay LACKS a Earth signal from ecu? on cranking.
Also while applying an Earth to relay coil,
F5 and F10 become live with 12v supply.

I will rescan with jumper wire in place and check live data.

I checked the 2 plugs to pump both are secure and wires are secure and clean.

Is it possible that there is a huge amount of air in fuel system hence,I don't get any fuel pressure reading?

Thanks for video link.

BTW I have checked and cleaned BSM earthing points all are good.
I will check voltage at fuel pump now I have jumpered F5 and F10.
Could it be the Ecu is not sending a Earth signal to Relays in BSM?

Thanks
 

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I had look at the injection wiring diagram (I supplied earlier) and I see that the BSM's microprocessor provides the earth for R2. The BSM's microprocessor is linked to the BSI via a dedicated bus (wires 9017 and 9018). The same microprocessor controls relay R6 so there is a risk there is no power at fuses F6, F9 and F13.

If fuel is reaching the high pressure fuel pump I doubt air will be a problem. I think something like a blocked filter is more likely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I had look at the injection wiring diagram (I supplied earlier) and I see that the BSM's microprocessor provides the earth for R2. The BSM's microprocessor is linked to the BSI via a dedicated bus (wires 9017 and 9018). The same microprocessor controls relay R6 so there is a risk there is no power at fuses F6, F9 and F13.

If fuel is reaching the high pressure fuel pump I doubt air will be a problem. I think something like a blocked filter is more likely.
Hi
Ok thanks for that.
I will check F6,9 and 13.
As soon as I get a in.
Will update later.

Many thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I had look at the injection wiring diagram (I supplied earlier) and I see that the BSM's microprocessor provides the earth for R2. The BSM's microprocessor is linked to the BSI via a dedicated bus (wires 9017 and 9018). The same microprocessor controls relay R6 so there is a risk there is no power at fuses F6, F9 and F13.

If fuel is reaching the high pressure fuel pump I doubt air will be a problem. I think something like a blocked filter is more likely.
 
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