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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,
I have had a problem with my brakes binding. For the first fifteen minutes everything is normal, but you can feel the brakes are coming on and then they start to smoke from the front wheels only. I have had new discs and pads fitted for this Mot and asked the garage to take a look at the problem. At the moment they have put on a new master cylinder but they say the problem is the same and it may be the Brake Servo at fault. Firstly there is servo assistance at the begining, when the brakes are binding the pedal is obviously hard. Secondly the brake servo is no longer made and not been able to source one from the car breakers. Is there a like for like servo that could be used as an alternative. I have a Expert 1.9 ltr diesel engine van and the year is 2005.
Thanks.
 

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Hi, I have attached two diagrams, so you can get part numbers. Your best bet is to search against part no on eBay, Amazon, or car parts sites and see if you can get non OEM replacement part.

Have they tried checking the o-rings and associated lines for leaks ?

Hope you find this helpful.
 

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the flexible rubber brake lines get hard with age. The power brake system can force the fluid into the calipers to apply force on the brake pads, but the fluid does not return.
Replace all of your brake lines. They are cheap
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi, I have attached two diagrams, so you can get part numbers. Your best bet is to search against part no on eBay, Amazon, or car parts sites and see if you can get non OEM replacement part.

Have they tried checking the o-rings and associated lines for leaks ?

Hope you find this helpful.

Hi Red Sector and many thanks for your response.
I have looked at the two files you have sent me, can you tell me are the parts listed relating to my year. My exact details are :- Peugeot Expert 815D panel van . 1868cc diesel engine
the flexible rubber brake lines get hard with age. The power brake system can force the fluid into the calipers to apply force on the brake pads, but the fluid does not return.
Replace all of your brake lines. They are cheap
the flexible rubber brake lines get hard with age. The power brake system can force the fluid into the calipers to apply force on the brake pads, but the fluid does not return.
Replace all of your brake lines. They are cheap
Hi there Sdibaja.
Thanks for your interesting reply, can you explain to me why the brake fluid would not return to the master cylinder through the return ports. When the brakes start to bind on, you can be parked on a steep hill without the handbrake and it would not roll away. But once it has cooled down after 30 to 45 minutes it frees itself, and then it does the same thing again. The van is still in the garage, so if you think this maybe the problem I would suggest to them. I would feel awkward trying to tell them their job though.
Thanks for your good response.
 

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Hi there Sdibaja.
Thanks for your interesting reply, can you explain to me why the brake fluid would not return to the master cylinder through the return ports. When the brakes start to bind on, you can be parked on a steep hill without the handbrake and it would not roll away. But once it has cooled down after 30 to 45 minutes it frees itself, and then it does the same thing again. The van is still in the garage, so if you think this maybe the problem I would suggest to them. I would feel awkward trying to tell them their job though.
Thanks for your good response.
if the hoses are restricted (my first thought)*... the calipers don't have enough pressure to push the fluid back rapidly... it will return, but very slowly.

the master cylinder creates tremendous pressure. that forces the fluid into the calipers and the brakes are applied.
when you take your foot off the pressure remains, kinda like if you keep your foot lightly on the peddle and the brakes get hot.
metals expand, the brakes are locked.

after some time the fluid slowly returns, less pressure in the caliper... and the metals cool and the brakes release.
====
this was more common in the 1950's and 1960's cars, we changed the lines when this happened after 5 or 10 years.
we had older technology with the materials in the flexible brake lines.
modern days it is less common, better materials.

=== to test
drive until they get hot and lock up. crawl under and open the air bleeder valve on the caliper. If it squirts out (retained pressure) that is probably the cause.
-----------------------
It sounds to me like you are using a General Mechanic Shop of some sort. randomly changing parts is a poor way to go.
Do you have Brake Shops?
Brakes are a specialty, people that work many years exclusively with Brakes understand better.
best of luck!

*Alternate Theory. the calipers might be sticking, preventing the brake pads from returning. I actually had that happen on my 2005 Dodge Durango and the brake shop replaced the calipers for me and that cured the problem.
 

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if the hoses are restricted (my first thought)*... the calipers don't have enough pressure to push the fluid back rapidly... it will return, but very slowly.
....after some time the fluid slowly returns, less pressure in the caliper... and the metals cool and the brakes release
Sorry, this isn't how it works or happens. The more likely is the slides on the brake calipers are what cause it not to come back, they bind on, and the result heat from pads allows them to continue to bind till they cool down.

A restriction would trip ABS error.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sorry, this isn't how it works or happens. The more likely is the slides on the brake calipers are what cause it not to come back, they bind on, and the result heat from pads allows them to continue to bind till they cool down.

A restriction would trip ABS error.
Hi Red Sector, thanks for all your replies. I have had this problem for the last three years and in the past what i used to do was to pull out the vacuum tube from the servo and it would release the brakes straight away.. I had to replace the non return valve as the grommet had split which only came as a complete package. ( that cost me £28.00 pounds. ) I Don't take it out anymore in case it breaks the grommet. So regarding your last reply about the slides on the brake calipers causing them to bind and then over heat. What thoughts have you got about the brakes releasing when when the vacuum pipe is removed.
The van is still at the garage and i cannot speak with them as their phone line has gone down so I don't know how progress is going on. I have read about the linkage behind the servo being dried up with grease and sticks and a good dose of penetrating oil left to soak over night might do the trick. I am still trying to find a brake booster for it. It was made by Bosch and the part number was 0204021571. Any help on finding a replacement would be appreciated.
Thanks for your patience Red.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
if the hoses are restricted (my first thought)*... the calipers don't have enough pressure to push the fluid back rapidly... it will return, but very slowly.

the master cylinder creates tremendous pressure. that forces the fluid into the calipers and the brakes are applied.
when you take your foot off the pressure remains, kinda like if you keep your foot lightly on the peddle and the brakes get hot.
metals expand, the brakes are locked.

after some time the fluid slowly returns, less pressure in the caliper... and the metals cool and the brakes release.
====
this was more common in the 1950's and 1960's cars, we changed the lines when this happened after 5 or 10 years.
we had older technology with the materials in the flexible brake lines.
modern days it is less common, better materials.

=== to test
drive until they get hot and lock up. crawl under and open the air bleeder valve on the caliper. If it squirts out (retained pressure) that is probably the cause.
-----------------------
It sounds to me like you are using a General Mechanic Shop of some sort. randomly changing parts is a poor way to go.
Do you have Brake Shops?
Brakes are a specialty, people that work many years exclusively with Brakes understand better.
best of luck!

*Alternate Theory. the calipers might be sticking, preventing the brake pads from returning. I actually had that happen on my 2005 Dodge Durango and the brake shop replaced the calipers for me and that cured the problem.
Hi SDIBAJA.
Thanks for all your thoughts on my problem. I have read over what you are saying and can understand all that you say about the flexi lines and the calipers sticking. I have one thing to tell you is that when I took out the vacuum pipe from the servo the brakes would release straight away . " Does this help explain anything to you." I am not in the motor trade but can understand after while how things supposed to work..
Here in the UK I don't think we have Garages that specialise in Brakes only.
Thanks for all your suggestions.
 

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I haven't looked at the pin slides before on this model, there are products that help them slide (examples below), but some (not all) have a rubber piece on one of them the slides, that deaerates and this helps bind them.


See if this part is still available (second hand)
Citroen Dispatch Peugeot Expert Brake Servo 90 Day Guarantee 0204021571 | eBay
 
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