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Discussion Starter #1
Hi. The brake pedal on my 2004 1.9d expert seems to travel a long way before brakes engage, With the engine off the pedal is hard with no creep however with the engine started the pedal travels 3/4 way to floor before brakes operate . Have bled the whole system the old fashioned way (two man job)and had new pads fitted but still the same. Has anyone found a cure for this seemingly common problem?
 

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have you looked at the back brakes?. Are they adjusted properly?.
If you keep gentle pressure on the brake pedal (with the engine running) does the pedal creep to the floor?. If it does the master cylinder is bad.

Roger.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hi. Will fit new master and new shoes on Tuesday provided I can find out what type to buy as apparently there are three different types.:mad: Took rear drum off yesterday and shoes seemed ok no leaks from cylinder and all pivots greased.Drums were quite tight to remove so I think the self adjusters are working.
 

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Does the pedal creep then?.
If it doesn't a new master cylinder won't fix it.

If you are replacing it, check if your motor factor has all three in stock, if so simply take the old one to them to compare.

Roger.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Just got in from a 12 hr shift so will test pedal in morning. Was hoping to find out what type of brakes are on the van without taking them off, as garage door does not close with van inside. Any sites where I could enter vin number and obtain this type of info? Alan.
 

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Just got in from a 12 hr shift so will test pedal in morning. Was hoping to find out what type of brakes are on the van without taking them off, as garage door does not close with van inside. Any sites where I could enter vin number and obtain this type of info? Alan.
Yea servicebox,register and make up garage name they don't check

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Discussion Starter #8
Right heres the latest news on the brake saga. Applied firm pressure to pedal whilst engine off,had good solid brake pressure kept pedal depressed and started engine. No change good constant pressure.Released pressure. Applied pressure again with engine still running and pedal creeps 3/4 way to floor before any brake pressure? Went on the gov site and viewed the mot history and discovered that it had failed its last mot on a seized brake compensator valve. So crawled under this morning and discovered that the compensator has not been replaced it looks like the original valve fitted:eek: maybe just freed up with wd40 could this cause these symptoms.
 

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Quite simply, no.
Freeing off a seized compensator is quite a normal practice.
The compensator restrict brake fluid flow to the back brakes, but pedal travel won't vary, the whole system will be full of air free brake fluid at all times.

Just a thought, I remember on a Renault 16 (many years ago :)), with the rear suspension hanging no brake fluid got past the compensator. I had to move the compensator to simulate a load before I could bleed the back brakes properly.

Roger.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Another update. Just fitted new shoes and wheel cylinders, bled the brakes out with 2 litres of fluid, not one sign of air, Nice pedal right up near top and realy firm. start the engine and pedal goes 3/4 to floor, so pulled valve from servo and tested brake,Nice firm pedal and up near the top,put finger over pipe from vaccum pump and plenty of suction. Put pipe back into servo and pedal goes 3/4 to floor. Dodgy servo.:confused:Alan.
 

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Servo sounds fine you must still have air in the system, damaged master cylinder seals or similar. Servo is boosting brake force and pedal is sinking as a result. Has car got ABS if so did let brake fluid empty when changing parts as that may have got air into ABS pump if no ABS check rear axle brake for load valve and check it's not seized

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Discussion Starter #14
Rightlatest info. Have ordered a new master from euro parts,its a pagid so its oem part.Spent all this morning stripping down both front callipers.Pads show only a narrow wear band about 15mm wide along top section off pad so two new front discs on the way as well. So plans for my next day off(Saturday) Fit new master.fit new discs,bleed master then rest of system.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Latest update. New master fitted this morningand brakes bled, result?:mad: still the same, pedal travels a fair way down although not as far as they used to. Can now pump pedal up with engine running and no creep:) Me now thinks airlock so have bought an eezzi bleed pressureised bleed kit which I will be using on my next day off.
 

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If you can pump up the pedal then def air in it somewhere. Eezibleed are great. I'm sure that'll sort it. Just be careful not to pump the pedal when using eezibleed as you can end up turning the master cylinder seals inside out.
 

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If you don't have access to planet find a quite road with a loose or poor road surface and do a couple of emergency stops to trigger ABS then try bleeding again.

Triggering the ABS cycles the hydraulic valves and can release trapped air which gets into the system if you let it fully drain when changing calipers/seals etc
 

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If no ABS check for a load valve on rear axle that may be sticking and stopping you being able to bleed rears 100%. Often you can disconnect the arm to it and push it up to simulate load on rear or put axle stand under lower arm to hold axle in normal position.

With the hub hanging with no wheel on it the valve is in minimum position as it thinks there is low weight on the axle and it tries to stop wheels locking

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