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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

Earlier this evening while manoeuvring slowly my brakes suddenly failed :eek: Luckily I was only parallel parking but I still had to plant my full weight on the pedal to avoid hitting the car behind me - I dread to think what would have happened if me or my girlfriend had been driving on main roads when this happened! The pedal suddenly went solid with little movement and had clearly lost all hydraulic assistance.

I parked, switched off the engine and restarted with the brakes now operating correctly, and very carefully made my way home.

I only bought the car 5 days ago and since then I have had intermittent ABS/ESP faults popping up. Some suggested this could be caused by a faulty brake switch - could this also lead to total failure? Or any other way these faults could be connected.

Obviously I can't use the car until I know what is causing this so any help very much appreciated :thumb:
 

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If your pedal went solid then there is something not right as normally what most would call brake failure is where the pedal goes all the way to the floor.

By the sounds of it either something is jamming the pedal assembly or you may have lost vacum assistance making the pedal very hard.

To be honest this is unlikely to be connected to the abs/esp fault as that seems to be a common electrical issue on 407s although having said that the abs pump unit could actually be faulty.

We had a faulty abs unit but it would hold the brakes on rather than stop them working !

I would be going back to the dealer with it assuming it was a dealer
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately it was a private sale.

The frustrating thing is that with everything being electronic nowadays, after switching off and on everything works fine. I think i'm right in saying that to check for normal vacuum operation I would pump the brake until hard with engine off, then start the engine with my foot on the pedal and it should then soften and allow movement - no doubt this will happen as normal as the fault just happened once out of the blue (no fault appeared on the display at the time).

What does the brake switch actually do? Is it this that actually detects the movement of the pedal and brings in the power assistance? There was still minimal brake operation but it felt just like if you rolled down a hill in neutral with the engine off and tried to brake.
 
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One thing. Brakes can't fail. One, there is two circuits and you'd have to have had at least two brake pipes cut on both circuits for the brakes to fail totally. What you experienced is failure of brake assistance. Also with failure of assistance the brakes haven't failed. They still work but you have to push the pedal a little more. Just to get things straight. There'll be loads of people reading your thread now as it begins with brakes failed but they actually haven't.

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Working at a dealership i know there isn't any time limit on recalls. If it left the factory with a defect & the manufacturer recalled it, they will sort it, as long as it hasn't already been done.

Pedal going solid seems to me like its a vacuum issue.

ESP/ASR system fault = Clutch/brake Switch issue or ECU
ESP/ABS system fault = Speed sensor issue
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thought I'd revive my old thread with an interesting update.

The only fault picked up by our garage was a faulty ABS sensor, so this was replaced and for a while everything was ok. However the braking assistance failure happened again recently so we took the car to our nearest peugeot main dealer. Their diagnosis was, to me, very curious - coolant temperature sensor :confused:

It was explained to me that the CTS wrongly sensed that the engine was overheating and thus shut down some systems - including braking assistance and power steering. On the most recent occasion when the brakes failed it coincided with an 'engine temp too high, STOP' warning.

Has anyone ever experienced this before? It baffles me that someone designing such logic systems could design it to warn the driver to stop, then disable his brakes! :eek:
 

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Sometimes, diagnostics can lead you right up the garden path. My wife had a Vauxhall Cavalier Automatic some years ago that would, for no apparent reason, stuff it's self into 'limp home' mode (lock the gearbox in 3rd gear). After a session with the local VM dealer's diagnostic computer, they said it was fault code 42. When I asked what that meant, the young technician said that he didn't know but would find out for us. A while later he returned and said he thought is was a faulty valve in the gearbox. As they didn't repair gearboxes, he said I should book it in for a gearbox replacement... around £3000. I politely declined.
I took the car to a local automatic gearbox specialist who knew all about Error Code 42. He reckoned it was a 'catch all' code for when the CPU didn't really know what was going on. A session on his computer diagnosed a faulty alternator, that was apparently putting high voltage 'spikes' into the system. A new alternator was fitted and the problem never occurred again!
 

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Is there a vacum pump on this one, or is the brake servo just connected directly to the air plenum of the engine?

There could possibly be something off with the one-way-valve that only is supposed to let air go from the brake servo and out, not letting anything in.
 

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Don't think the dealership are correct, the operation of the brake servo is entirely mechanical, I think the problem is in the vacuum pipework or the 1 way valve. Our 807 has/had a defective cts that occassionally sends the gauge skyward with a warning message a mile or so after starting off but the brakes are never affected.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the further replies - the plot thickens.

I was a little suspicious about the CTS explanation to say the least, but after my girlfriend spoke to the garage again today it appears there were two separate issues. The CTS was indeed faulty so that was replaced, but it then became clear that the car was running too cool - 64-70 degrees on the road test.

Details are a bit fuzzy until I speak to them myself, but apparently there is a vacuum problem in the inlet which is causing the cool running (and worse mpg which we hadn't noticed!), so assuming this is where the braking system takes the vacuum from (?) it could also explain that problem. It sounds alot like the issue relating to the recall but we've had them check twice and apparently it doesn't apply to our car.

Will update when it's all sorted for the benefit of others, big bill due methinks :eek:
 

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Think the garage are getting a bit muddled over this, can't see how extra air drawn in to the inlet (if this is what is happening) could cause cool running, if anything the resulting weak mixture would cause overheating and poor running. A defective thermostat would keep the engine cool in cold weather.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
All will hopefully become clear when I speak to them myself - this was relayed to me after my girlfriend spoke to them. She explained something to do with a valve on the inlet, vacuum problem, running too cool etc.

The car has always run about 70 degrees (according to the dash gauge) since we bought it in february, I had to reason to question it as it drove fine and mpg seemed normal (33ish on the motorway, 28 on shorter trips). Woudn't a dodgy thermostat only make it run cool initially, until it would normally be open anyway? I am basing this on experience with older cars, I'm not sure about the black magic that goes on in these electronic-everything machines nowadays.
 

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A thermostat stuck open will delay the engine getting warm but as you say it would not make any difference once the engine is hot. In cold weather however a good thermostat prevents water circualting until the water has got hot enough in the heads and so it is worth getting the thermostat checked as it looks like the engine is not getting up to temperature.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This is still ongoing and I can't say I'm too impressed by Peugeot at the moment.

After all this work was done at a cost of around £700, a few weeks later we got multiple faults again - the usual ABS/ESP, auto lights, aux lights, auto headlights etc. So the car was taken back after new year when Peugeot re-opened, another diagnostics run and they apparently found a faulty brake switch which was repaired for another £65.

All was well for a week, until Sunday when the braking assistance failed again as we were approaching a roundabout at 60mph. Cue an emergency stop using the handbrake. I was utterly raging at this point that Peugeot would return the car to us with this problem unresolved - you would think they would take it seriously when someone brings their car in with failing brakes, and you'd want to pretty sure you got to the bottom of it before handing it back.

To add insult to injury, when I called them again and spoke to a technician he immediately said "sounds like you have a vacuum problem", which is what I said at the very start before £750 had changed hands for completely unrelated work.

The problem does seem exactly the same as the recall issue, but they seem sure that doesn't apply to our car. They will no doubt like some more money from us for further work, but I am considering writing a letter to Peugeot HQ explaining our 'journey' in the hope that they agree our problem should have been handled better.
 

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Hi. For awhile now I've had an unnerving experience with the solid brake in my 607 particularly when I want to reverse the car or when the AC is on or when I'm in a traffic jam. I'm hoping to know how to tackle this problem because. There are no indications suggesting any fault with ABS. At least PP2000 hasn't picked on any. Please help as I've spent months searching the Internet for assistance
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi. For awhile now I've had an unnerving experience with the solid brake in my 607 particularly when I want to reverse the car or when the AC is on or when I'm in a traffic jam. I'm hoping to know how to tackle this problem because. There are no indications suggesting any fault with ABS. At least PP2000 hasn't picked on any. Please help as I've spent months searching the Internet for assistance
This sounds similar to the problem I had. Have a read through this other thread I started and see if it sounds like your issue.

http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/407-41/advice-needed-braking-problem-77530/

If your car has a vacuum circuit going back to the exhaust as mine does, this could be the culprit. Peugeot were no help at all and their diagnostics picked up no faults, so I eventually fixed the problem myself.
 
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