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Discussion Starter #1
Hi folks,

I have 307 1.4 8v, car has been off-road since last april due to ill health and not being able to get round to fix an other issue, namely rear brake calipers seized.
Anyways
The car needed to be moved to gain accesss to front of house, battery was flat and the guy attempted to jump start mine from his (I was not available at the time) The Mrs was outside helping and she told me that the guy had the jump leads the wrong way round, she said there were sparks, whilst in the car with ignition turned on she also said there was no dash lights, the guy revved his engine for a few moments then he realized his mistake with the leads.
He tried again with the leads correctly positioned and the car started, although as soon as the leads were removed the car died. At this point the car was left and the battery would be removed and charged overnight, which it was.
Following morning fully charged battery was fitted and the car started just fine, however....... after running for a while on the drive I noticed the battery warning light come on and the 'Battery Charge Issue' on the info display panel.

Im assuming the wrongly placed jump start has blown something. Hoping to pin down the issue to hopefully just the voltage regulator I have carried out some tests on the alternator with a multimeter and my results are as follows

With engine running voltage accross battery is just that of the battery, with load applied (lights and fan on) the voltage drops and doesnmt rise as expected with increased revs.

With cable removed from alternator B post and multimeter red wire to it and black to casing of alternator the output is only 2v even at 2000rpm

Diode test, as seen on youtube, seemed to be ok
Tested for AC current and it seems the rectifier is ok. as seen on youtube.

There was nothing wrong with the alternator or battery before this bloke attempted to jump start the car.

I can source a new voltage regulator online and fit it myself If I can get the alternator off, looks like the AC pump is in the way, tut

Alternator is a Valeo 96 496117-80 CL8
how does the little 2 wire plug come out?


Any advice would be gratefully received.

Car is SORN, no TAX, no MOT.


Simon
 

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Hi folks,

I have 307 1.4 8v, car has been off-road since last april due to ill health and not being able to get round to fix an other issue, namely rear brake calipers seized.
Anyways
The car needed to be moved to gain accesss to front of house, battery was flat and the guy attempted to jump start mine from his (I was not available at the time) The Mrs was outside helping and she told me that the guy had the jump leads the wrong way round, she said there were sparks, whilst in the car with ignition turned on she also said there was no dash lights, the guy revved his engine for a few moments then he realized his mistake with the leads.
He tried again with the leads correctly positioned and the car started, although as soon as the leads were removed the car died. At this point the car was left and the battery would be removed and charged overnight, which it was.
Following morning fully charged battery was fitted and the car started just fine, however....... after running for a while on the drive I noticed the battery warning light come on and the 'Battery Charge Issue' on the info display panel.

Im assuming the wrongly placed jump start has blown something. Hoping to pin down the issue to hopefully just the voltage regulator I have carried out some tests on the alternator with a multimeter and my results are as follows

With engine running voltage accross battery is just that of the battery, with load applied (lights and fan on) the voltage drops and doesnmt rise as expected with increased revs.

With cable removed from alternator B post and multimeter red wire to it and black to casing of alternator the output is only 2v even at 2000rpm

Diode test, as seen on youtube, seemed to be ok
Tested for AC current and it seems the rectifier is ok. as seen on youtube.

There was nothing wrong with the alternator or battery before this bloke attempted to jump start the car.

I can source a new voltage regulator online and fit it myself If I can get the alternator off, looks like the AC pump is in the way, tut

Alternator is a Valeo 96 496117-80 CL8
how does the little 2 wire plug come out?


Any advice would be gratefully received.

Car is SORN, no TAX, no MOT.


Simon
check the fuses and the main fuses, you will have to remove the fuse box under the bonnet to gain access to the main fuses
 

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Before condemning the alternator check the MAXI fuses they are UNDER the fusebox under the bonnet but it does sound like alternator is toast.

Your lucky it didn't fry the BSI !
 

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Discussion Starter #4
check the fuses and the main fuses, you will have to remove the fuse box under the bonnet to gain access to the main fuses
Is there a Maxi-Fuse or 'fused link' for the charging circuit, I can find no reference no such in the Haynes manual, or am I missing something?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Have just double checked the Haynes wiring diagram for charging circuit and there is a fuse between the alternator and the BSI (protecting the BSI I assume) which and where it is I dont know at this point. Its a big one though 60/70A

So how do you remove the fuse box to gain access underneath? With the cover removed Ive just looked and its not obvious how to remove fuse board, is it just held in place by the bolt holding down the cable coming from the battery Pos+ terminal?
 

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Have just double checked the Haynes wiring diagram for charging circuit and there is a fuse between the alternator and the BSI (protecting the BSI I assume) which and where it is I dont know at this point. Its a big one though 60/70A

So how do you remove the fuse box to gain access underneath? With the cover removed Ive just looked and its not obvious how to remove fuse board, is it just held in place by the bolt holding down the cable coming from the battery Pos+ terminal?
yep just undo that bolt
 

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As you have done the tests with multimeter and checked fuses, I'd take off the alternator first and take off the voltage regulator to check brushes to see if they are worn out.

Because you said the car was fine before hand I would get a second hand alternator hoping the regulator brushes still have some life in them. Cheap enough on ebay.

If you are handy with a soldering iron you can replace the brushes in regulator ( good video on utube for valeo alternators ) although I did change my regulator because of time and ease and it fixed my charging problems but I tend to renew the brushes in the old regulator when i got time.

On my 307 the alternator is held on with 4 bolts with 1 of them also holding the belt pulley on as i haven't got a auxiliary belt tensioner on mine :nono:
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
are you sure its not charging and not just a dud battery not holding a charge,

if you tested it ticking over what about when being revved
Battery is fine, it holds charge well, less than 1yr old. tried with a 2nd battery I have (used to power 12v lights in shed :) ) that also holds charge well.

checked at idle and 2500+rpm

As you have done the tests with multimeter and checked fuses, I'd take off the alternator first and take off the voltage regulator to check brushes to see if they are worn out.

Because you said the car was fine before hand I would get a second hand alternator hoping the regulator brushes still have some life in them. Cheap enough on ebay.

If you are handy with a soldering iron you can replace the brushes in regulator ( good video on utube for valeo alternators ) although I did change my regulator because of time and ease and it fixed my charging problems but I tend to renew the brushes in the old regulator when i got time.

On my 307 the alternator is held on with 4 bolts with 1 of them also holding the belt pulley on as i haven't got a auxiliary belt tensioner on mine :nono:
Yeas, I think I may buy a 2nd hand alternator off ebay, Im watching a couple, similar price to a new regulator.
I dont have a working soldering iron at moment, I have seen the video you mention.

Thanks
Sim
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Update.

Alternator completely isolated from car's electics by removing the cable from B+ post and the signal wire plug. Multimeter between B+ and alternator casing still only produces 2v even with 2000+rpm applied.

2nd hand alternator ordered. :)


Thanks all for the advice and help
I'll keep you posted

Sim
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Job done

Hi folks, here's the final update.

Swapped out the voltage regulator with the one from 2nd hand alternator now my alternator is pumping out 14v+ as it should. Tested under load and all is fine.

You may be wondering why I didnt just swap the complete alternators, well... the 2nd hand one was showing signs of extreme corrosion to body, internally looked coated in the white dust from the corrosion and it seemed one of the bearings was getting a bit suspect, basically it wasnt as smooth as my original. Plus, it proved my diagnosis of a failed voltage reg.

regards
Sim
 

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Hi folks, here's the final update.

Swapped out the voltage regulator with the one from 2nd hand alternator now my alternator is pumping out 14v+ as it should. Tested under load and all is fine.

You may be wondering why I didnt just swap the complete alternators, well... the 2nd hand one was showing signs of extreme corrosion to body, internally looked coated in the white dust from the corrosion and it seemed one of the bearings was getting a bit suspect, basically it wasnt as smooth as my original. Plus, it proved my diagnosis of a failed voltage reg.

regards
Sim
Glad you got it sorted. The voltage regulator although working probably won't last too long base on the condition of the rest of it. I would get a reconditioned alternator over time as funds permit, so as and when it does go you can swap it.
 

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He would of been able to see how worn the brushes and slip ring was when changing regulator. May last another couple years.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
He would of been able to see how worn the brushes and slip ring was when changing regulator. May last another couple years.
Slip rings on my original alternator were showing less wear than the 2nd hand one, I shall fit new brushes to the regulator later in spring whilst doing the timing belt change, they're only a couple of quid for a pair.

:)
 
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