[reima]

Hi,


I have a 06 2.7 V6 GT with dual zone climate control. today the Air Con hasn't been getting cold - only blowing slightly cool.

i put it all way down to LO and i can hear the fans going up and staying up and loud but its not blowing as cold it should be IMHO.


it was re-gassed 2 or so months ago by the dealer.

i am tempted to just deal witht his my self and get it re-gassed properly , if so any recommendation in London please?

Thanks

 

[danielr]

You can buy recharge kits from halfords, these are not spectacular cheap, but they will at least give you an indication of issues...

I got one a few years ago, they were something like £40 per can of refrigerant, (with a £10 rebate on bottle return) and £20 for the adapter to actually get the stuff from the can into the circuit.


the adapter has a pressure gauge on it, so perhaps the most useful part is hooking up that gauge to find out of you actually have pressure in the system. you can try filling it up.
I bough it for my last car, filling that up made it work for a few months then it was bad (low pressure) again, so that indicates a leak somewhere.

you can buy a Freon detector on ebay for ~ £30 - £60, that you can use in detecting a leak, (or you can get refrigerant kits with UV dye in them and go searching with a black light torch... )


basically, if your intention was to just go to a place that will whack in a can of refrigerant, or the stop leak refrigerant stuff you can do that at home. (but it's getting around the same sort of money as going to a recharge place.) if it's been charged before and it is still leaking (assuming they used that) you've got either a hole or a not sealed joint somewhere and you'll need to fix the leak or you'll end up just putting in can after can of refrigerant.

to be honest, the tools aren't that cheap, and if you find the leak then you'll want to replace parts etc. working on a high pressure refrigerant system, may or may not be something you feel comfortable with.

 

[storeman]

Considering it's an offence to allow the gas to vent into the atmosphere (leaks not being counted) it really needs to go to somewhere that have the equipment to collect whatever gas may still b in the system, pressure check it and if necessary, locate any leaks. Once any repairs if required have been completed they can then re-test the system then re-gas.

 

[rwb]

Specifically, it is an offence to put refrigerant into a system that is known to leak.

Are your heater flaps OK? It the flap doesn't move all the way to the cold position then it lets past a surprisingly large amount of hot air.

Otherwise, you may indeed have a leak.
Every year I get my air con gassed up, every year it passes the vacuum test, and every year it's empty again after the winter.

The problem with the vacuum test is that it pulls joints closed whereas when the system is gassed up it is under pressure which pushes joints open.

So: get it gassed up and dyed and hopefully the dye will show up where the leak is.

 

[danielr]

Considering it's an offence to allow the gas to vent into the atmosphere (leaks not being counted) it really needs to go to somewhere that have the equipment to collect whatever gas may still b in the system, pressure check it and if necessary, locate any leaks. Once any repairs if required have been completed they can then re-test the system then re-gas.

you are right... (I looked it up to be sure, - it seems strange that they sell kits for this potentially illegal activity in high street stores!)

perhaps i should clarify the advice I've given:
on searching for leaks, I said you may buy dye chemicals to find a leak, and you can buy freon detection devices to find the leak.
Adapters for recharge can tell you about the system pressure.

using those methods, you should be able to find the leak, and determine if the system is pressurized, if it is not pressurized, you won't be venting any gas as there is no gas in the system.

(the refrigerant UV dye packs do not contain refrigerant) - so you're not using refrigerant to find leaks.

https://ior.org.uk/app/images/pdf/C...on Commercial Refrigeration Systems 18.12.pdf

The section 2 of that doc covers

Specifically, it is an offence to put refrigerant into a system that is known to leak.
...
Every year I get my air con gassed up, every year it passes the vacuum test, and every year it's empty again after the winter.

So every year you intentionally put gas into a known leaky system?


You *can* do this at home (fix the air conditioning) (and you can do it legally too, but the tools are expensive, and the system may be dangerous to work with...)

You can take it to the same sort of place that RWB does, they will whack in a can and charge you £99, (and presumably say see you next year)
If your long term plan was re-gassing every year and ignoring the leak, it's illegal regardless of whether you take it somewhere to do that, or do it on your driveway.

 

[trem1]

I paid £35 to get mine checked/regassed. And it wasn't from a can either was a bloody big machine

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[storeman]

So every year you intentionally put gas into a known leaky system?

Ermmm - don't know where you get that idea from.

Fist off, it was stated that it passes the leak test and secondly, it's not rwb putting the gas into the system, it is the business he takes the car to for re-gassing that recharges the system and if it was leaking it would be the business doing this not the car owner - huge difference.

 

[ashdav]

There are a few misconceptions here.
Seals in aircon systems are designed to seal with positive internal pressure
(like oil seals around shafts).
If the seals are intact they will also seal under negative internal pressure (ie. vacuum). It is after all only -1 bar.
Hence the initial vacuum test to check for integrity.

Vacuum is pulled then the pump isolated from the system.
On a car ,with such a small volume, the vacuum should hold for 2 hours with no loss. Larger industrial systems are held for 24hrs.
This has the advantage of evacuating the system of any moisture which is the real killer for aircon. Hence why constant topping up has no effect.

The next test should be to charge with nitrogen at full system pressure for 2hr with no loss but no one ever does this on cars as it costs money and time.
Next step should be to pull down to vacuum again then recharge with the recommended, measured weight of refrigerant (gas).
It will stabilise after half an hours use.
Filling to pressure takes too long to perform, is inaccurate and too dependent on ambient conditions.

Most problems are leaks from seals and porous rubber pipes.

To maximise life of an aircon system it needs to be run regularly (once a month) to distribute the lubricant which actually causes the seals to swell to ensure integrity.
This is by design.
Just squirting gas from a can is a "get me home" solution.
Any garage that does this should be avoided.
I speak from 13 years experience of aircon and refrigeration (C+G certification).

Addendum: I'd like to know how one is expected to inject dye into the system at home. It's a messy,smelly task under industrial conditions.
And if you get it on your skin it's there for weeks. Bright yellow in daylight and pale blue under UV. Smells like strong carbolic soap/creosote.
You look weird at discos! (Raves for the younger ones).

 

[reima]

thanks a lot for all your replies, reading this and speaking to the warrantywise people i have booked it in with autocare garage in leeds to do a full investigation for a leak. i'll keep you all posted

 

[C.C Duck]

i had the same problem with my AC in my 2.2L coupe at first the shop said that the raidiator was the fault, so i switched it out myself and got a friend of my to fill the system for me. One week later the air stopped being so cold so i tried to do a leak test at first i didn't see anything but there it was a tiny tiney hole in the top rubber house but the thing is that the AC will work on realy low rpm but when you speed up the pressure will increase and it will leak even more. I tried to go to peugeot to buy a new rubber house thought it shouldn't be to expencie but guess i was wrong they wanted 150 pounds wich is more then what i payed for the AC raidiator! so i went back home and thought to myself maybe High tempreature gasket silicon paste can fix it... and you know what it actually did! i justed smuged a good bit all over the tube to make a outer silicon layer on the house and now the AC works perfectly for only 7 pounds :lol: