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Discussion Starter #1
(This is my 2nd attempt to post this, sorry if it turns up as a duplicate)

I've been having trouble starting the car from cold. When it does catch it is a bit smoky. Once it is running it is fine, no smoke and idles and runs fine. If the engine isn’t cold it normally starts OK without smoking.. so I’m wondering if the smoke is just unburned diesel from all the time spent cranking.

Anyhow..
Because it was only when cold and no codes I got the glow plugs and relay changed.. which didn’t resolve the issue. (no need to tell me this won’t work.) It was still a pig to start and the garage pointed out that there was a cam position sensor warning. Switching out the sensor didn’t solve this.. I wondered if it was low cranking voltage causing the error.. a multimeter showed the voltage was pretty low when fighting to get it started. A new battery as got rid of the cam sensor warning, but it still doesn’t want to start. (Diagbox seems to be reporting cam sync is fine too)
The garage weren’t sure what the problem was and suggested going to an auto electrician.

Next garage was an independent Peugeot specialist. After messing around with the injectors and I believe checking the pumps they found an EGR blanking plate. From that they’ve told me they saw no EGR flow and zero DPF load.. leading them to think the core of the DPF has also been removed and a bad ECU remap done.

I’ve struggled to find a DPF to fit the dw10uted4 (RHK). Looking under the car and at the Peugeot service software I suspect it has never had a DPF. It looks like there are two cats, but no DPF. This has me questioning if the diagnosis is correct at all. So I’m not sure what to do now.

Questions and stuff…

1) Does anyone have access to service box? Could I PM you the numbers from the end of the VIN to confirm my suspicion about the lack of DPF / two cat configuration.

2) If the engine has no DPF.. I’m guessing a 0 DPF load is right? The second cat is more/less where the DPF would be. I can’t see any pipes that look like the DPF sensor ones.

3) Am I right in thinking the EGR blanking would have required an ECU remap to stop it throwing warnings / errors?

The garage (and Diagbox) both seem to think that the EGR is operating correctly, so I’m not sure why it would have been blanked.. So I’m thinking of removing the blanking. I have no idea how long the blanking has been in place for.

More questions:

3) Can the blanking be removed (and EGR reinstated) before the ECU is reprogrammed to factory? Not sure what the implications of doing this would be. If I have the ECU done before the EGR blanking is removed I’m guessing it’ll throw errors / limp.

4) If I am removing the blanking.. I’m expecting there will be a load of old crap in the EGR system. Should I be worried about this? I expect that chunks of crap being ingested by the engine would be a bad thing. I was thinking of removing the pipe and checking / cleaning it.. and removing the EGR to clean if it looks blocked (though it passes the Diagbox test). Will this be enough? From what I can tell there is a cooler below the EGR.. but it sounds like I’d have to drain the coolant to remove / clean this.
5) How long does the engine need to run for before the injector correction values are valid?
I’ve got a bottle of BG244. I’m more than a little tempted to get the current correction values, then stick the BG244 in to see if it makes any different (to starting and the maybe the injector corrections).

That’s all I can think of. I’d be grateful for any ideas / suggestions. I’m in the Bradford / West Yorkshire area. I have access to Diagbox (but not the knowledge to interpret the data).
Thanks,
Dan
 

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I can't tell you anything about all of your woes except, I have owned 3 807s all 2.2 hdi, registered in 2003, 2006 & 2008. None of them had DPFs.
From that, unless they added them in on later 807s, which I don't think they did, Yours shouldn't have had one fitted.

Grumpy
 

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Some were fitted with DPF my old 807 2003 2.2 HDi had a DPF fitted, it was fitted underneath as a two part unit with CAT
 

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I just googled it and you're right.. They are listed but I have never bought any fluid for any 807 and I did 224k in the 2006 one, 195k in the 2008 and 174k in the 2003.
I couldn't have been that lucky to not have them on all three surely!!?

Grumpy
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Mine is a 2.0 which was registered in March 09. From what I've read a DPF became mandatory in 2009.. From what I've read other versions of the dw10 (ATED4/BTED4) had a DPF fitted.

On the ECP website if I type in my reg they'll point me at a DPF with the single bracket. I know for sure there isn't one of them under my car! Looking under the car and at pictures online.. where I'd expect to see the DPF, it looks a lot like a 1731LK Catalytic converter to me.
 

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If it has been remapped that could be cause of poor cold starting. On some software versions if you change one of the map axis scale it causes cold start issues
 

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Fuel supply-Engine
ENGINE DW10UTED4 TURBO DIESEL
DIESEL FILTER WATER DETECTOR WITHOUT DIESEL FILTER WATER DETECTOR
FUEL DIESEL FUEL
EMISSIONS STANDARD (ENGINE) ANTI DEPOLLUTION L5 (ENGINE)
EXHAUST TRANSVERSE REAR SILENCER
ENGINE (TYPE) EW/DW
CATALYTIC CONVERTER CATALYTIC CONVERTER 2 COMPOUNDS BEL 50PPM 40 GR
OIL COOLER MNTG WATER/OIL EXCHANGER ON ENGINE
VEHICLE EMISSIONS STANDARD (TYPE APPROVAL) L5 DEPOLLUTION (HOMOLOGATION)
CRANKCASE GAS CIRCUIT HEATING W/O HEATER CASING GAS CIRCUIT
VEHICLE TECHNICAL DEPOLLUTION L5 VEHICLE TECHNICAL DEPOLLUTION
PARTICLE FILTER WITHOUT PARTICLE FILTER
FAN 2 300W + 460W 3-SPEED FANS
FUEL VAPOUR RETRIEVAL WITHOUT PETROL VAPOUR RECUPERATION
INJECTION ASSOCIATED VARIANT SIEMENS ASSEMBLY
TANK FILTER RESERVOIR FILTER INTERIOR
THROTTLE HOUSING (ENGINE INLET AIR CIRCUIT) WITHOUT THROTTLE HOUSING (INTAKE AIR ENGINE)
 

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Does digi box show crank / cam correlation (cam sync ) to be correct WHILST it’s cranking over ?
Does digi box have a ‘ injection commence ‘ tab in live data

What is rail pressure showing WHILST cranking ?

Does this have submerged pre pump in tank ....or squeezing ball under bonnet ?


Only trouble with getting some of these readings whilst cranking is that the ecm can dropout or get a bit fuzzy whilst cranking because of the electrical noise off the starter motor
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm looking at the data I captured before it went to the 2nd garage, but I can get more data tomorrow if needed.

With the old data:
When it is cranking over, the camshaft / crankshaft sync is at 1.
I'm looking at a log, but I can't see an injection commence chart in the data if that is what you mean?
The measured fuel pressure doesn't come up instantly like the reference, but it gets to 329+ whilst cranking. (If I'm reading it right, it takes under a second to come up to those values)
The car has a squeeze ball under the bonnet. When I looked at the transparent tube by the squeeze ball it appeared to have fuel in and the squeeze ball didn't feel like there was any squeezing to be done. (unless you really have to put some force in to it)

I can try to attach a picture of the charts if that'll help?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Soo.. today I've taken her our for ~25minutes then plugged in to Diagbox when I got back.
Cylinder injector 1 flow correction: 78%
Cylinder injector 2 flow correction: 96%
Cylinder injector 3 flow correction: 97%
Cylinder injector 4 flow correction: 127%

From what I've read elsewhere 130% is the limit of what you can get away with. Could these values suggest the injectors could be the source of the problem?

I put a can of BG244 in on top of around 60l of diesel and took her out again for a 95 mile run (around 3/4 tank -> 1/2 tank fuel). New numbers are:
1: 80%
2: 91%
3: 101%
4: 126%
I put the stuff in then went for the drive more/less straight away. No idea if it sitting in the system will carry on breaking crud up or not. We'll see if there is any further change after the next drive I guess. She does sound like she is idling more smoothly.. but tbh I think the rougher idle has only been since she got back from the last garage trip.
 

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Ok , so you are getting 329bar of Rail pressure within a second of cranking .

And how much longer do you have to crank over before it starts ?

If the car starts well warm and runs well I would not be condemning injectors at this point .

For whatever reason injection commence ( the trigger of the injectors ) is not happening, the 329 bar .....as long as that is what it is is good ..

Does the cam and crank sensor have an elongated hole so they can be moved closer to the pick up reluctor .
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Er, I've not timed it.. but what feels like bloody ages. This morning, cranked it for a while, it coughed once. (I'd guess at ~15sec). Gave it ~20sec ish, then cranked again. A few coughs this time, sounded like it was cranking more slowly so stopped. Third attempt it coughed once or twice then fired up. There was smoke from the exhaust when it coughed, and plenty of smoke when it fired up. White, no blueness.

If I'm getting a load of smoke when it fires.. won't that be the unburned fuel from where it has been injected and made its way in to the exhaust burning off? (if it is injecting whilst cranking but not firing) Would we get that if the injection commence hadn't happened?

Not sure about the crank sensor, but the cam sensor does have an elongated hole.. but I'd guess it is 4mm ish of movement. In Diagbox I've seen the cam/crank sync trace at 1 whilst cranking.. would we get this if a sensor wasn't happy?

After the initial struggle to fire up this morning, every other time she started with no struggle at all, almost instantly. No smoke at all on the subsequent starts.

I didn't have Diagbox plugged in when I fired it up this morning.. but I could grab a log and stick a pdf print on dropbox?
 

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Not sure if anyone has said this already but prime the primer bulb BEFORE trying it from cold see if it starts better if it is its most likely fuel if it does not it is more likely electrical
 

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Yes ....lots of white smoke on start up does suggest that it is injecting on your extended crank over .

Can you confirm that the rail pressure is reading in bar and you have got over 300 in your cranking period , to check your reading when warm running at idle rail pressure will be around 250 bar .

How many miles on this vehicle , is the engine generally good ...it’s not heavy breathing or using loads of oil or any issues like that
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I've grabbed and printed out logs from start-up this morning and leaving work this evening. Maybe I'm not interpreting the data correctly. I'll PM you a link to them.

The car is around 81000 miles, I've done roughly 7500 miles since getting it. When I got it the oil level was pretty much at the dipstick max. (If it had been any higher I might have thought about syphoning some out.) The oil level has dropped marginally, but it is still pretty close to max. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by heavy breathing?
 

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81k miles is nothing on these , if it had 381k miles maybe would of been a concern , heavy breathing is if you take oil filler cap off and it puffing out of there whilst running ... this is piston ring blow by but I don’t think we need to worry bout that with yours .

Yes pm the link to the logging see if I can see anything
 

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I have an expert van with the same engine. Had the same starting problems. The starter churned and churned and churned and eventually the engine struggled into life. It ran fine once started. I tried everything but eventually the starter gave up. I fitted a new starter and wow what a difference. The new starter really spins the engine over and it fires up straight away. With the old starter it sounded like a typical diesel turning over, never dreamt that the starter might be the problem. It may not be your problem but it might be worth seeing if you could borrow a starter to try.
David
 
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